Bike tech idea for Jeff

[Frank Krygowski]

For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.

Here's an idea:

You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 12:28:18 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o

Nice idea. I like it. However, I don't think it will work for my
situation. Offhand, the problems I see are:

- I don't have a place where I could build a terminal or landing zone
in a tree that has easy access to the house. I would need to go up
between two trees and then walk across a bridge of sorts to get to the
house. It can be done, but it won't be easy.

- I'm rather old to be doing such things. Climbing the stairs wasn't
much of a problem (and was good exercise) until about 2020, when I
started having medical problems and had to stop such exercises.
Unfortunately, I haven't recovered my former strength. Just riding a
bicycle is a problem for me. A counter balance pulley system will be
a big help, but will need to be adjusted every time I carry something
heavy up the tree. Hauling myself and the bicycle up the tree is
possible. Hauling myself plus 40 lbs or dry firewood (oak) or 60 lbs
of green logs might be difficult.

- If I haul myself plus 60 lbs of green logs up the hill, getting back
down for another load is going to require removing 60 lbs of weight
from the counter balance. That's about 7.5 gallons of water, which
can be done possibly with a water pump.

- My problem isn't so much getting myself up and down the stairs. My
problem is with the stuff I usually carry up and down (firewood,
furniture, tools, power equipment, groceries, lumber, generators, etc.
If I take myself and the bicycle out of the equation, a pulley or
winch system need only lift the stuff without adding myself and the
bicycle to the burden. I'm considering something like a small
motorized steep slope "railroad" car. There are plenty of suitable
designs available which I can steal:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=hillside%20lift&udm=2>

Thanks for the suggestion (which got me thinking about the problem
again). It will probably be a few years before I need to build
something. One very useful takeaway is the Dyneema rope:
<https://www.dyneema.com>
I was going to use wire rope but I like the idea of making less noise.

Post by Frank Krygowski
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 21 Jan 2025 22:11:02 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Post by Jeff Liebermann
Thanks for the suggestion (which got me thinking about the problem
again). It will probably be a few years before I need to build
<https://www.dyneema.com>
I was going to use wire rope but I like the idea of making less noise.

I'd never heard of that stuff. Its strength sounds amazing. I wonder
about its abrasion resistance, though.

It's also new to me. It's called UHMWPE (Ultra-high-molecular-weight
polyethylene). It's one of the polyolefin plastics (thermoplastic
polyethylene). It's been around since the 1970's. I must have been
asleep not to have noticed:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene>

Abrasion resistance doesn't seem to be a problem. The manufactory
claims "4X longer rope abrasion and creep lifetime compared to HMPE".
<https://www.dyneema.com/sectors/offshore-energy/engineered-lifting-slings>

I remember us talking about the inclined track idea. But there may be
less elaborate methods that can do the job. I recall seeing, in some
European city, double clotheslines strung between two buildings, running
over a pulley at each building. Residents could haul their clothes in or
out by pulling the rope along the pulleys.

If I decide to do it crudely, something like that was my favored plan.
Two trees with a pulley attached to each tree and a wire or rope loop
in between. Maybe a spring to maintain tension. What stopped me from
just building something and testing it was that there is no tree at
the lower end of the hill that I can attach a pulley. The nearest
trees are either 15 ft up the hill or across the road. I would need
to bury a large concrete block in either my parking space or in the
road. I have an idea for a compound pulley derangement that might
minimize the tension on the lower anchor block.

I wonder if a similar inclined cable could haul wood upstairs, from a
container hanging from one strand.

Yes. That's roughly my plan. However, to prevent spilling the load
on its way up, the container (box) will need to be supported by two
slings to the cable. At this time, I carry the wood up the stairs
using one or two CLC 390 canvas slings:
<https://www.amazon.com/Custom-Leathercraft-C390-Canvas-Carrier/dp/B0001ZI53S>
It works nicely. However, for a cable lift, I would need to wrap the
load with a self tightening strap to prevent spilling the load.

The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw
it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
that require and extra person.

Pedal drive would be charming, but an
electric motor would be easier to implement. One benefit would be no
infrastructure except at the ends.

Extrapolating my loss of strength and deteriorating stamina, I suspect
that an electric motor will be best for the long term.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

[Frank Krygowski]

Post by Jeff Liebermann
The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw
it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
that require and extra person.

That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in the attic of
a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were in the basement-level
garage. I realized pretty soon that if I'd forgotten to bring up a 3
pound hammer, I had to lift almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of
that load was me.

Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you to load the
wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let the motor pull it up,
and have the box dump wood onto an upper porch or whatever in response
to a remote command. It sounds like an interesting challenge.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Post by Frank Krygowski

Post by Jeff Liebermann
The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that
it takes
two people to operate.  One to load firewood at the bottom
of the
hill.  Another to unload the firewood at the top of the
hill and throw
it into a pile.  That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid
solutions
that require and extra person.

That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in
the attic of a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were
in the basement-level garage. I realized pretty soon that if
I'd forgotten to bring up a 3 pound hammer, I had to lift
almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of that load was me.
Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you
to load the wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let
the motor pull it up, and have the box dump wood onto an
upper porch or whatever in response to a remote command. It
sounds like an interesting challenge.

I was thinking along those lines with a box on rails, line
secured to the upper outside edge so it tips at the top. I
couldn't think of a simple way to tip the box back up for
the return. Complexity makes all this less attractive.

Maybe a backyard roller coaster?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=backyard%20roller%20coaster&udm=2>
That would take care of any bumps and turns. If I build it in a
traditional endless loop (or possibly a Mobius strip), I wouldn't need
to worry much about the return trip. The loop would go around the
house which helps deliver firewood (or junk) to any part or level of
the house. Maybe I couldn't fund the project by charging for rides.

Tipping the box to unload works well for firewood, but not so well for
groceries or the neighbors kids. I would also need to buy a neighbors
empty lot because I don't really have enough land for proper turns. I
built a temporary contraption the eliminated the tipping problem.
Instead of a box carrier on rails, it was a rope loop and two pulleys
suspended about 3 to 6 ft from the ground. The firewood was placed
inside a canvas bag. The release mechanism was a slip knot holding
the bag closed. One the load had been dumped, I could pull on the
release rope to bring the canvas bag down to the start point. It had
problems mostly because I used springy and stretchy nylon rope but did
show some promise. I would prefer a box on rails, but the rope,
pulleys, canvas bag and slip knot solution is less complexicated.

I was also looking at backyard roller coasters and train kits for the
design ideas and construction components. I haven't looked at specs
yet but it should be possible. Uphill can be a powered bicycle chain
(similar to the larger amusement park rides).
<https://www.google.com/search?q=amusement%20park%20roller%20coaster%20chain%20lift&udm=2>
<https://rollercoaster.fandom.com/wiki/Roller_Coaster_Wiki>

Locally, we that a famous amusement park with a famous roller coaster:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=santa%20cruz%20giant%20dipper&udm=2>
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=giant%20dipper>
We also have an assortment of small businesses who build and service
amusement park rides. If I get bored with reinventing the wheel, I
might be able to ask them for help (and parts).

The difficult part (for me) will be preventing the local brats from
joyriding the firewood box up and down the hill. I haven't asked my
insurance agent if my homeowners insurance covers maintaining an
attractive nuisance. Making the box small and removable should help.

Thanks for the ideas but it might be a few years before I actually
build anything. As I previously mentioned, the main objective is to
carry about 2.5 cords per year of mostly white oak firewood up about
50 stairs. That's 5,000 to 6,000 lbs per cord when green or about
3,000 lbs when dry.
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
Prior to some medical problems, I was able to do this fairly well. I'm
managing to do it this year, but just barely. I would much prefer to
recover my strength and continue carrying the firewood up the hill
than resorting to mechanical or electrical assistance.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 11:52:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski

Post by Jeff Liebermann
The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw
it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
that require an extra person.

That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in the attic of
a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were in the basement-level
garage. I realized pretty soon that if I'd forgotten to bring up a 3
pound hammer, I had to lift almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of
that load was me.

It's called exercise. I drag all of this:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
up about 50 stairs, every winter (about 5 months). My cardiologist
claims that the exercise is all that keeps my alive. (He says that
it's the only thing I'm doing right and everything else I'm doing is
all wrong).

Post by Frank Krygowski
Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you to load the
wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let the motor pull it up,
and have the box dump wood onto an upper porch or whatever in response
to a remote command. It sounds like an interesting challenge.

It is interesting and I think about it often. The hillside is uneven
and a cable delivery system avoids the problem. Additional
complexications make it even more challenging. However, as long as
I'm (barely) able to haul the firewood up the hill, I won't be
building anything to make it easier. I really do need the exercise.

[Frank Krygowski]

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 11:52:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski

Post by Jeff Liebermann
The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw
it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
that require an extra person.

That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in the attic of
a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were in the basement-level
garage. I realized pretty soon that if I'd forgotten to bring up a 3
pound hammer, I had to lift almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of
that load was me.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
up about 50 stairs, every winter (about 5 months). My cardiologist
claims that the exercise is all that keeps my alive. (He says that
it's the only thing I'm doing right and everything else I'm doing is
all wrong).

Post by Frank Krygowski
Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you to load the
wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let the motor pull it up,
and have the box dump wood onto an upper porch or whatever in response
to a remote command. It sounds like an interesting challenge.

It is interesting and I think about it often. The hillside is uneven
and a cable delivery system avoids the problem. Additional
complexications make it even more challenging. However, as long as
I'm (barely) able to haul the firewood up the hill, I won't be
building anything to make it easier. I really do need the exercise.

Understood.

Maybe a simpler enhancement to the existing non-system? Do you
physically lift the wood all the way up? If so, maybe an inclined track
added to the stairs or the handrails could act as a ramp, allowing
rolling it part or all the way uphill. You'd still get the exercise of
lifting your body mass up, but you'd be applying less force to get the
wood up.

Or if you could install a vertical pole, you might be able to have a
hoist trolley system - a vertical electric hoist rolling on a horizontal
track (like a jib crane) or on a cable to your upper porch.

I'd be interested in a better overall look at the property.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 16:34:43 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<***@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
(chomp)

Post by Frank Krygowski
Maybe a simpler enhancement to the existing non-system? Do you
physically lift the wood all the way up?

Yes. I use one or two slings like this:
<https://goclc.com/product/canvas-log-carrier/>

The distance between the hand rails was too small for me to always use
two slings, so I went up the stair sideways. After loosing some arm
strength, I could no longer carry two slings and now use only one at a
time. I could probably make something better by butchering one of my
back packs.

Post by Frank Krygowski
If so, maybe an inclined track
added to the stairs or the handrails could act as a ramp, allowing
rolling it part or all the way uphill. You'd still get the exercise of
lifting your body mass up, but you'd be applying less force to get the
wood up.

I had thought of attaching two rails on the stairs and climbing
between them while pulling on a rail cart. The problem is that it
would require some mechanism to keep the wheels of the cart going in a
straight line or following a curve. That's usually done with an axle
and tapered flanged wheels, something I would like to avoid. Some
details:
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how%20train%20wheels%20go%20around%20turns>

Post by Frank Krygowski
Or if you could install a vertical pole, you might be able to have a
hoist trolley system - a vertical electric hoist rolling on a horizontal
track (like a jib crane) or on a cable to your upper porch.

I could almost do that. The hillside is about 60 degrees from
horizontal. In other words, it's almost a cliff. The flat roof makes
it possible to extend the roofing beams out over the road. I then
attach a trolley to the beam to form a jib crane. I can make that
work, but I'm not sure I would want that on my house. I won't list
the potential problems, but the one that bothers me most is the lack
of access should something get hung up or tangled. At my age, tight
rope and beam walking is not considered a good idea.

Post by Frank Krygowski
I'd be interested in a better overall look at the property.

I'll try to take some more photos and use a panorama program to stitch
together to form a panorama. It would be nice to have such a thing. I
already have one for the inside of the house (for insurance purposes).
Yet another project...

[Frank Krygowski]

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 16:34:43 -0500, Frank Krygowski
(chomp)

Post by Frank Krygowski
Maybe a simpler enhancement to the existing non-system? Do you
physically lift the wood all the way up?

<https://goclc.com/product/canvas-log-carrier/>
The distance between the hand rails was too small for me to always use
two slings, so I went up the stair sideways. After loosing some arm
strength, I could no longer carry two slings and now use only one at a
time. I could probably make something better by butchering one of my
back packs.

Post by Frank Krygowski
If so, maybe an inclined track
added to the stairs or the handrails could act as a ramp, allowing
rolling it part or all the way uphill. You'd still get the exercise of
lifting your body mass up, but you'd be applying less force to get the
wood up.

I had thought of attaching two rails on the stairs and climbing
between them while pulling on a rail cart. The problem is that it
would require some mechanism to keep the wheels of the cart going in a
straight line or following a curve. That's usually done with an axle
and tapered flanged wheels, something I would like to avoid. Some
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=how%20train%20wheels%20go%20around%20turns>

Post by Frank Krygowski
Or if you could install a vertical pole, you might be able to have a
hoist trolley system - a vertical electric hoist rolling on a horizontal
track (like a jib crane) or on a cable to your upper porch.

I could almost do that. The hillside is about 60 degrees from
horizontal. In other words, it's almost a cliff. The flat roof makes
it possible to extend the roofing beams out over the road. I then
attach a trolley to the beam to form a jib crane. I can make that
work, but I'm not sure I would want that on my house. I won't list
the potential problems, but the one that bothers me most is the lack
of access should something get hung up or tangled. At my age, tight
rope and beam walking is not considered a good idea.

Post by Frank Krygowski
I'd be interested in a better overall look at the property.

I'll try to take some more photos and use a panorama program to stitch
together to form a panorama. It would be nice to have such a thing. I
already have one for the inside of the house (for insurance purposes).
Yet another project...

Maybe add some close up photos of the stair details.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 23 Jan 2025 20:45:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski
Maybe add some close up photos of the stair details.

That might be awkward. Various sections of the stairs were added or
rebuilt in 4 different projects, at 4 different times, by 4 different
carpenters, in 4 different ways over the past 50 years. Nothing of
the original stairs from 50 years ago remains intact. Nothing fits
together very well. That's one reason I wanted to lay a separate
track up the hill and avoid doing anything with the stairs. I think
it best to let bad ideas rest in peace.

[AMuzi]

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 11:52:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski

Post by Jeff Liebermann
The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw
it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
that require an extra person.

That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in the attic of
a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were in the basement-level
garage. I realized pretty soon that if I'd forgotten to bring up a 3
pound hammer, I had to lift almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of
that load was me.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
up about 50 stairs, every winter (about 5 months). My cardiologist
claims that the exercise is all that keeps my alive. (He says that
it's the only thing I'm doing right and everything else I'm doing is
all wrong).

Post by Frank Krygowski
Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you to load the
wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let the motor pull it up,
and have the box dump wood onto an upper porch or whatever in response
to a remote command. It sounds like an interesting challenge.

It is interesting and I think about it often. The hillside is uneven
and a cable delivery system avoids the problem. Additional
complexications make it even more challenging. However, as long as
I'm (barely) able to haul the firewood up the hill, I won't be
building anything to make it easier. I really do need the exercise.

Does your stair have a railing? (if not, why not?)

A fairly simple monorail box with a section on either side
of the railing would do if you bring a light load per trip
and do that with each trip up to the house.

Simple stick type stop which would engage the balusters.

Couple of rubber wheels from a hardware store and they ride
on axles which cross from one box to the other.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Post by AMuzi

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 11:52:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski

Post by Jeff Liebermann
The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw
it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
that require an extra person.

That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in the attic of
a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were in the basement-level
garage. I realized pretty soon that if I'd forgotten to bring up a 3
pound hammer, I had to lift almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of
that load was me.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
up about 50 stairs, every winter (about 5 months). My cardiologist
claims that the exercise is all that keeps my alive. (He says that
it's the only thing I'm doing right and everything else I'm doing is
all wrong).

Post by Frank Krygowski
Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you to load the
wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let the motor pull it up,
and have the box dump wood onto an upper porch or whatever in response
to a remote command. It sounds like an interesting challenge.

It is interesting and I think about it often. The hillside is uneven
and a cable delivery system avoids the problem. Additional
complexications make it even more challenging. However, as long as
I'm (barely) able to haul the firewood up the hill, I won't be
building anything to make it easier. I really do need the exercise.

Does your stair have a railing? (if not, why not?)

The lower half of the stairs have handrails on both sides. The upper
part has no handrails. Both parts need better guardrails which are
currently not to code. It's my fault because I'm lazy and cheap. The
lower part had better hand rails at one time, but had to be
temporarily removed because of construction. Part of that was
providing clearance for a large crane being used to remove some huge
Douglas Fir trees across the road:
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/m6Wu54S6FLfssG2c9>
I'll add it to the "deferred maintenance" list of things to do
eventually.

Post by AMuzi
A fairly simple monorail box with a section on either side
of the railing would do if you bring a light load per trip
and do that with each trip up to the house.

I sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
When green, it's about 40 lbs. A monorail on one side could be made
to work. With a 60 degree angle from horizontal angle, I would need to
pull the box uphill at:
40 lb * sin(60) = 40 * 0.87 = 35 lbs.
Better, but not really a major improvement. Of course, if the
monorail was almost horizontal, like a railroad grade, the force
required for me to drag the box up the stairs would be much less.

Post by AMuzi
Simple stick type stop which would engage the balusters.

I'm not sure, but for outdoor stairs, I think the county now requires
2x2 square balusters with a wired cable down the middle and at least a
2x4 for hand rails.
"Deck, Porch, Landing, Stair, Ramp, and Guard Construction"
<https://cdi.santacruzcountyca.gov/Portals/35/CDI/UnifiedPermitCenter/Building/Forms%20&%20Publications/IB%20Publications/Deck%20Construction_IB900.pdf>
I'll read through it (time permitting).

Post by AMuzi
Couple of rubber wheels from a hardware store and they ride
on axles which cross from one box to the other.

That won't go around corners very well. Going up from the road at the
bottom, to the deck and door at the top, I count five 90 degree turns.
I negotiate these with some difficulty using various hand trucks.

[AMuzi]

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by AMuzi

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Wed, 22 Jan 2025 11:52:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski

Post by Jeff Liebermann
The problem with one cable strand or a single loop is that it takes
two people to operate. One to load firewood at the bottom of the
hill. Another to unload the firewood at the top of the hill and throw
it into a pile. That's possible, but I'm trying to avoid solutions
that require an extra person.

That is a big problem. I've mentioned before doing work in the attic of
a friend's house, whose workshop and tools were in the basement-level
garage. I realized pretty soon that if I'd forgotten to bring up a 3
pound hammer, I had to lift almost 180 pounds up three stories. Most of
that load was me.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/MLGS2MyEcMCCwzMK9>
up about 50 stairs, every winter (about 5 months). My cardiologist
claims that the exercise is all that keeps my alive. (He says that
it's the only thing I'm doing right and everything else I'm doing is
all wrong).

Post by Frank Krygowski
Seems like we should invent a mechanism that would allow you to load the
wood into some sort of cable-suspended box, let the motor pull it up,
and have the box dump wood onto an upper porch or whatever in response
to a remote command. It sounds like an interesting challenge.

It is interesting and I think about it often. The hillside is uneven
and a cable delivery system avoids the problem. Additional
complexications make it even more challenging. However, as long as
I'm (barely) able to haul the firewood up the hill, I won't be
building anything to make it easier. I really do need the exercise.

Does your stair have a railing? (if not, why not?)

The lower half of the stairs have handrails on both sides. The upper
part has no handrails. Both parts need better guardrails which are
currently not to code. It's my fault because I'm lazy and cheap. The
lower part had better hand rails at one time, but had to be
temporarily removed because of construction. Part of that was
providing clearance for a large crane being used to remove some huge
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/m6Wu54S6FLfssG2c9>
I'll add it to the "deferred maintenance" list of things to do
eventually.

Post by AMuzi
A fairly simple monorail box with a section on either side
of the railing would do if you bring a light load per trip
and do that with each trip up to the house.

I sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
When green, it's about 40 lbs. A monorail on one side could be made
to work. With a 60 degree angle from horizontal angle, I would need to
40 lb * sin(60) = 40 * 0.87 = 35 lbs.
Better, but not really a major improvement. Of course, if the
monorail was almost horizontal, like a railroad grade, the force
required for me to drag the box up the stairs would be much less.

Post by AMuzi
Simple stick type stop which would engage the balusters.

I'm not sure, but for outdoor stairs, I think the county now requires
2x2 square balusters with a wired cable down the middle and at least a
2x4 for hand rails.
"Deck, Porch, Landing, Stair, Ramp, and Guard Construction"
<https://cdi.santacruzcountyca.gov/Portals/35/CDI/UnifiedPermitCenter/Building/Forms%20&%20Publications/IB%20Publications/Deck%20Construction_IB900.pdf>
I'll read through it (time permitting).

Post by AMuzi
Couple of rubber wheels from a hardware store and they ride
on axles which cross from one box to the other.

That won't go around corners very well. Going up from the road at the
bottom, to the deck and door at the top, I count five 90 degree turns.
I negotiate these with some difficulty using various hand trucks.

90 degree turns? Yikes!
That is indeed quite a problem for hauling firewood.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Post by AMuzi

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by AMuzi
Couple of rubber wheels from a hardware store and they ride
on axles which cross from one box to the other.

That won't go around corners very well. Going up from the road at the
bottom, to the deck and door at the top, I count five 90 degree turns.
I negotiate these with some difficulty using various hand trucks.

90 degree turns? Yikes!
That is indeed quite a problem for hauling firewood.

90 degree turns is not a problem when I'm climbing up the stairs.
However, it will be a serious problem if I was riding (or guiding) a
load of firewood on rails. Fortunately, there are places where I can
go up the hill in a straight line and without 90 degree turns.
Unfortunately, such places are not conveniently attached to the
stairs.

[AMuzi]

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by AMuzi

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by AMuzi
Couple of rubber wheels from a hardware store and they ride
on axles which cross from one box to the other.

That won't go around corners very well. Going up from the road at the
bottom, to the deck and door at the top, I count five 90 degree turns.
I negotiate these with some difficulty using various hand trucks.

90 degree turns? Yikes!
That is indeed quite a problem for hauling firewood.

90 degree turns is not a problem when I'm climbing up the stairs.
However, it will be a serious problem if I was riding (or guiding) a
load of firewood on rails. Fortunately, there are places where I can
go up the hill in a straight line and without 90 degree turns.
Unfortunately, such places are not conveniently attached to the
stairs.

OK then, here you go:

cargo example:
https://bostondynamics.com/blog/from-margaritas-to-mars-an-interview-on-spots-custom-payloads/

Looked for a price list but couldn't find it. You might
volunteer to be a 5 year beta tester.

[Jeff Liebermann]

A sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
When green, it's about 40 lbs.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

[AMuzi]

Post by Jeff Liebermann

A sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
When green, it's about 40 lbs.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

Nice photo. THX.
Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

The heating season is only 7~8 months and I assume you
leave the house and return at least once every two days on
average. yes?

[Jeff Liebermann]

Post by AMuzi

Post by Jeff Liebermann

A sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
When green, it's about 40 lbs.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

Nice photo. THX.
Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

Thanks. I'm not a very good photographer. However, improvements in
today's smartphone cameras have greatly improved the quality of my
photography. Incidentally, I tried to load the "sling" with a mixture
of firewood types to produce a better average weight.

Yes, there's a reason I don't want to do light loads. Going up 50
stairs, with no additional load (firewood, groceries, junk, etc) makes
the muscles at the front of both legs, between the ankle and knee,
rather tired and sore. It wasn't always this way, but that's the
current situation. Near the end of the climb, I have trouble lifting
my legs result in a tendency to trip of the stair treads, which is
very dangerous. With more exercise, I'm getting better, but it will
be some time before I can go up the stairs without becoming overly
tired. Therefore, the project requires minimizing the number of trips
up (and down) the stairs, at least until when my strength and stamina
both return.

Post by AMuzi
The heating season is only 7~8 months and I assume you
leave the house and return at least once every two days on
average. yes?

My schedule is a disorganized mess. Right now, the weather is
unusually warm (thanks to global warming). The first real warming
fire was in early Nov 2024. I expect warm weather to return in late
Apr 2025. That's about 6 months of burning firewood. If we have a
delayed rainy season, which appears to be the case, add one month.

At least 1 day per week, I leave the house early and return late. In
effect, I'm not home. Some weeks, that can be 2 or 3 days per week.

At this time or year, to save on firewood, I don't start a fire until
about 6pm. On really cold days, I might start at 4pm. I keep the
fire burning to about midnight, when I put the largest log I can find
on the fire and let it smolder all night. I'm still quite warm in the
morning. It's now 6:30PM and 64F indoors with no additional heating.
61F outdoors. If it remains this way, I probably will not start a
fire.

In terms of firewood consumption, I burn an average of 4 "bundles" of
firewood (30 lbs) per day. That means 4 trips up and down the stairs
per day. Sometimes one bundle more, sometimes less.

[AMuzi]

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by AMuzi

Post by Jeff Liebermann

A sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
When green, it's about 40 lbs.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

Nice photo. THX.
Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

Thanks. I'm not a very good photographer. However, improvements in
today's smartphone cameras have greatly improved the quality of my
photography. Incidentally, I tried to load the "sling" with a mixture
of firewood types to produce a better average weight.
Yes, there's a reason I don't want to do light loads. Going up 50
stairs, with no additional load (firewood, groceries, junk, etc) makes
the muscles at the front of both legs, between the ankle and knee,
rather tired and sore. It wasn't always this way, but that's the
current situation. Near the end of the climb, I have trouble lifting
my legs result in a tendency to trip of the stair treads, which is
very dangerous. With more exercise, I'm getting better, but it will
be some time before I can go up the stairs without becoming overly
tired. Therefore, the project requires minimizing the number of trips
up (and down) the stairs, at least until when my strength and stamina
both return.

Post by AMuzi
The heating season is only 7~8 months and I assume you
leave the house and return at least once every two days on
average. yes?

My schedule is a disorganized mess. Right now, the weather is
unusually warm (thanks to global warming). The first real warming
fire was in early Nov 2024. I expect warm weather to return in late
Apr 2025. That's about 6 months of burning firewood. If we have a
delayed rainy season, which appears to be the case, add one month.
At least 1 day per week, I leave the house early and return late. In
effect, I'm not home. Some weeks, that can be 2 or 3 days per week.
At this time or year, to save on firewood, I don't start a fire until
about 6pm. On really cold days, I might start at 4pm. I keep the
fire burning to about midnight, when I put the largest log I can find
on the fire and let it smolder all night. I'm still quite warm in the
morning. It's now 6:30PM and 64F indoors with no additional heating.
61F outdoors. If it remains this way, I probably will not start a
fire.
In terms of firewood consumption, I burn an average of 4 "bundles" of
firewood (30 lbs) per day. That means 4 trips up and down the stairs
per day. Sometimes one bundle more, sometimes less.

"the weather is unusually warm (thanks to global warming). "

I wish.
Dawn today minus 8F. Didn't ride. Again.

[Frank Krygowski]

Post by AMuzi

Post by Jeff Liebermann

A sling of firewood is not a light load.  I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
When green, it's about 40 lbs.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

Nice photo. THX.
Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

I'll note that whatever Jeff weighs, he's got to haul his own weight
upstairs every time me makes a trip. That argues for minimizing those trips.

To get 60 pounds of firewood lifted 35 feet, a 175 pound man carrying
one pound per trip would do 370,000 ft*lbs of work against gravity,
which is mostly just repeatedly lifting his body mass. If he were able
to carry the 60 pounds of wood in one trip, his work against gravity
would be just 8200 ft*lbs, mostly because his body mass is lifted only once.

But human power output is not simple. Carrying 60 pounds might be
impossible. Still, it seems there's some optimum size for the load.

Normally the best approach would be to avoid lifting the body mass. Jeff
wants exercise, but if we could work out a practical lift device, he
could consider getting exercise some other way.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:43:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski

Post by AMuzi

Post by Jeff Liebermann

A sling of firewood is not a light load.  I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
When green, it's about 40 lbs.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

Nice photo. THX.
Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

I'll note that whatever Jeff weighs, he's got to haul his own weight
upstairs every time me makes a trip. That argues for minimizing those trips.
To get 60 pounds of firewood lifted 35 feet, a 175 pound man carrying
one pound per trip would do 370,000 ft*lbs of work against gravity,
which is mostly just repeatedly lifting his body mass. If he were able
to carry the 60 pounds of wood in one trip, his work against gravity
would be just 8200 ft*lbs, mostly because his body mass is lifted only once.

Sorry, but I made a mistake. One load, as in the photo, would be only
30 lbs. Divide all the above calculations by two. This is 30 lbs.
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

Post by Frank Krygowski
But human power output is not simple. Carrying 60 pounds might be
impossible. Still, it seems there's some optimum size for the load.

In the not so distant past, when I was younger and stronger, I could
do it by carrying 60 lbs distributed in two slings. Actually, more
like 50 lbs because my left arm is weaker than my right arm.

Post by Frank Krygowski
Normally the best approach would be to avoid lifting the body mass. Jeff
wants exercise, but if we could work out a practical lift device, he
could consider getting exercise some other way.

I have a recumbent bicycle exercise machine. I don't like it, but use
it when I feel like abusing myself.

[Frank Krygowski]

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 11:43:52 -0500, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski

Post by AMuzi

Post by Jeff Liebermann

A sling of firewood is not a light load.  I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
When green, it's about 40 lbs.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

Nice photo. THX.
Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

I'll note that whatever Jeff weighs, he's got to haul his own weight
upstairs every time me makes a trip. That argues for minimizing those trips.
To get 60 pounds of firewood lifted 35 feet, a 175 pound man carrying
one pound per trip would do 370,000 ft*lbs of work against gravity,
which is mostly just repeatedly lifting his body mass. If he were able
to carry the 60 pounds of wood in one trip, his work against gravity
would be just 8200 ft*lbs, mostly because his body mass is lifted only once.

Sorry, but I made a mistake. One load, as in the photo, would be only
30 lbs. Divide all the above calculations by two. This is 30 lbs.
<https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

I understood. My comparison of a one pound load vs. a 60 pound load was
just to illustrate reasonable extreme situations. My point is that that
optimum load is somewhere between those extremes. I thought someone
might try to determine that optimum.

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by Frank Krygowski
Normally the best approach would be to avoid lifting the body mass. Jeff
wants exercise, but if we could work out a practical lift device, he
could consider getting exercise some other way.

[AMuzi]

Post by Jeff Liebermann

A sling of firewood is not a light load. I just weighed it at 30 lbs.
When green, it's about 40 lbs.

<https://photos.app.goo.gl/rmqqcZ4g8h6mGg7v6>

Nice photo. THX.
Any reason you couldn't carry less but more frequently?

The heating season is only 7~8 months and I assume you
leave the house and return at least once every two days on
average. yes?

[Frank Krygowski]

Post by Jeff Liebermann
Thanks for the suggestion (which got me thinking about the problem
again). It will probably be a few years before I need to build
<https://www.dyneema.com>
I was going to use wire rope but I like the idea of making less noise.

I'd never heard of that stuff. Its strength sounds amazing. I wonder
about its abrasion resistance, though.

I remember us talking about the inclined track idea. But there may be
less elaborate methods that can do the job. I recall seeing, in some
European city, double clotheslines strung between two buildings, running
over a pulley at each building. Residents could haul their clothes in or
out by pulling the rope along the pulleys.

I wonder if a similar inclined cable could haul wood upstairs, from a
container hanging from one strand. Pedal drive would be charming, but an
electric motor would be easier to implement. One benefit would be no
infrastructure except at the ends.

[Tom Kunich]

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly.
Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

[AMuzi]

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly.
Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of
non sequiturs on RBT.

[Frank Krygowski]

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly.
Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of non sequiturs
on RBT.

And let's make clear that the title is not an honor.

[cyclintom]

Post by AMuzi

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly.
Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of
non sequiturs on RBT.

Excuse me but your discussion of physical exercise for Jeff is completely dangerous. Even something as light as his chopping wood is hardly safe.

Japan Sounds Alarm as Heart Failure Surges 4900% Among Covid-Vaxxed

[Shadow]

Post by cyclintom

Post by AMuzi

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly.
Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of
non sequiturs on RBT.

Excuse me but your discussion of physical exercise for Jeff is completely dangerous. Even something as light as his chopping wood is hardly safe.
Japan Sounds Alarm as Heart Failure Surges 4900% Among Covid-Vaxxed

LOL. I actually found that site. Although it gives no
references at all. The main news there is that Putin is asking Trump
for a meeting so Russia can concede in the war against the Ukraine.
Sounds legit.

And I like the cannabis ads on the site. "No prescription
necessary". Looks legit too.

There are no reports on Moses, though. Is he old #FAKE_NEWS?

Found the link:

<https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2022/heart-failure-patients-unvaccinated-against-covid-are-three-times-more-likely-to-die-from-it-than-boosted-heart-failure-patients>

BTW, that's peer reviewed. Unlike youtube.
[]'s

[Jeff Liebermann]

Post by Shadow

Post by cyclintom

Post by AMuzi

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly.
Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of
non sequiturs on RBT.

Excuse me but your discussion of physical exercise for Jeff is completely dangerous. Even something as light as his chopping wood is hardly safe.
Japan Sounds Alarm as Heart Failure Surges 4900% Among Covid-Vaxxed

LOL. I actually found that site. Although it gives no
references at all.

Thanks. Many web sites and Twitter postings which reference only each
other. Start with a Google search:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=Japan%20Sounds%20Alarm%20as%20Heart%20Failure%20Surges%204900%%20Among%20Covid-Vaxxed>
<https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=Japan%20Sounds%20Alarm%20as%20Heart%20Failure%20Surges%204900%%20Among%20Covid-Vaxxed&ia=web>
None of the postings provided a link to the original source of the
"alarm". There are some links to much earlier research, none of which
mention a 4900% surge in heart failures. Announcing that it's from a
Japanese source insures that something will be lost in the
translation. Methinks this be garbage.

Post by Shadow
The main news there is that Putin is asking Trump
for a meeting so Russia can concede in the war against the Ukraine.
Sounds legit.
And I like the cannabis ads on the site. "No prescription
necessary". Looks legit too.
There are no reports on Moses, though. Is he old #FAKE_NEWS?
<https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2022/heart-failure-patients-unvaccinated-against-covid-are-three-times-more-likely-to-die-from-it-than-boosted-heart-failure-patients>
BTW, that's peer reviewed. Unlike youtube.
[]'s

[cyclintom]

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by Shadow

Post by cyclintom

Post by AMuzi

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly.
Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of
non sequiturs on RBT.

Excuse me but your discussion of physical exercise for Jeff is completely dangerous. Even something as light as his chopping wood is hardly safe.
Japan Sounds Alarm as Heart Failure Surges 4900% Among Covid-Vaxxed

LOL. I actually found that site. Although it gives no
references at all.

Thanks. Many web sites and Twitter postings which reference only each
<https://www.google.com/search?q=Japan%20Sounds%20Alarm%20as%20Heart%20Failure%20Surges%204900%%20Among%20Covid-Vaxxed>
<https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=Japan%20Sounds%20Alarm%20as%20Heart%20Failure%20Surges%204900%%20Among%20Covid-Vaxxed&ia=web>
None of the postings provided a link to the original source of the
"alarm". There are some links to much earlier research, none of which
mention a 4900% surge in heart failures. Announcing that it's from a
Japanese source insures that something will be lost in the
translation. Methinks this be garbage.

Post by Shadow
The main news there is that Putin is asking Trump
for a meeting so Russia can concede in the war against the Ukraine.
Sounds legit.
And I like the cannabis ads on the site. "No prescription
necessary". Looks legit too.
There are no reports on Moses, though. Is he old #FAKE_NEWS?
<https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2022/heart-failure-patients-unvaccinated-against-covid-are-three-times-more-likely-to-die-from-it-than-boosted-heart-failure-patients>
BTW, that's peer reviewed. Unlike youtube.

Your heart attack is on its way.

[John B.]

Post by cyclintom

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by Shadow

Post by cyclintom

Post by AMuzi

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly.
Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of
non sequiturs on RBT.

Excuse me but your discussion of physical exercise for Jeff is completely dangerous. Even something as light as his chopping wood is hardly safe.
Japan Sounds Alarm as Heart Failure Surges 4900% Among Covid-Vaxxed

LOL. I actually found that site. Although it gives no
references at all.

Thanks. Many web sites and Twitter postings which reference only each
<https://www.google.com/search?q=Japan%20Sounds%20Alarm%20as%20Heart%20Failure%20Surges%204900%%20Among%20Covid-Vaxxed>
<https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=Japan%20Sounds%20Alarm%20as%20Heart%20Failure%20Surges%204900%%20Among%20Covid-Vaxxed&ia=web>
None of the postings provided a link to the original source of the
"alarm". There are some links to much earlier research, none of which
mention a 4900% surge in heart failures. Announcing that it's from a
Japanese source insures that something will be lost in the
translation. Methinks this be garbage.

Post by Shadow
The main news there is that Putin is asking Trump
for a meeting so Russia can concede in the war against the Ukraine.
Sounds legit.
And I like the cannabis ads on the site. "No prescription
necessary". Looks legit too.
There are no reports on Moses, though. Is he old #FAKE_NEWS?
<https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2022/heart-failure-patients-unvaccinated-against-covid-are-three-times-more-likely-to-die-from-it-than-boosted-heart-failure-patients>
BTW, that's peer reviewed. Unlike youtube.

Your heart attack is on its way.

But Tommy...
https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/study-heart-failure-patients-unvaccinated-against-covid-19-more-likely-to-die-from-virus

"New research from Mount Sinai Heart has found that patients with
heart failure who are unvaccinated against SARS-CoV-2 are 3 times more
likely to die if they are infected with the virus compared with those
fully boosted against COVID-19."

[John B.]

Post by John B.

Post by cyclintom

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by Shadow

Post by cyclintom

Post by AMuzi

Post by Tom Kunich

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems. Or is
this simply a rouse to make some inane comments? You and he ran right out
to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
get Covid-19. Jess is one of those injured and very likely to have
shortened his lifespan. While I don't care for his expertise on everything
he knows nothing about, death is something that isn't to be taken lightly.
Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

You remain, by universal acclaim, the undisputed master of
non sequiturs on RBT.

Excuse me but your discussion of physical exercise for Jeff is completely dangerous. Even something as light as his chopping wood is hardly safe.
Japan Sounds Alarm as Heart Failure Surges 4900% Among Covid-Vaxxed

LOL. I actually found that site. Although it gives no
references at all.

Thanks. Many web sites and Twitter postings which reference only each
<https://www.google.com/search?q=Japan%20Sounds%20Alarm%20as%20Heart%20Failure%20Surges%204900%%20Among%20Covid-Vaxxed>
<https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=Japan%20Sounds%20Alarm%20as%20Heart%20Failure%20Surges%204900%%20Among%20Covid-Vaxxed&ia=web>
None of the postings provided a link to the original source of the
"alarm". There are some links to much earlier research, none of which
mention a 4900% surge in heart failures. Announcing that it's from a
Japanese source insures that something will be lost in the
translation. Methinks this be garbage.

Post by Shadow
The main news there is that Putin is asking Trump
for a meeting so Russia can concede in the war against the Ukraine.
Sounds legit.
And I like the cannabis ads on the site. "No prescription
necessary". Looks legit too.
There are no reports on Moses, though. Is he old #FAKE_NEWS?
<https://www.mountsinai.org/about/newsroom/2022/heart-failure-patients-unvaccinated-against-covid-are-three-times-more-likely-to-die-from-it-than-boosted-heart-failure-patients>
BTW, that's peer reviewed. Unlike youtube.

Your heart attack is on its way.

But Tommy...
https://www.pharmacytimes.com/view/study-heart-failure-patients-unvaccinated-against-covid-19-more-likely-to-die-from-virus
"New research from Mount Sinai Heart has found that patients with
heart failure who are unvaccinated against SARS-CoV-2 are 3 times more
likely to die if they are infected with the virus compared with those
fully boosted against COVID-19."

That's two strikes showing that you don't know what you are talking
about. Want to try for three ?

[Shadow]

On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You and he ran right out
to get mRNA GMO's billed as "vaccines" and the latest studies from Japan
are that they injured one in four and "vaccinated" were twice as likely to
get Covid-19.

Is this a Musk thing, a Trump thing or did you just make it
up?
Links please.

Post by Tom Kunich
Especially since he doesn't believe that Moses ever existed.

I don't believe the Moses guy put poison in the vaccines. If
you have any proof he did, post the links.
TIA
[]''s

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

[Roger Merriman]

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

Lord knows what the truth of Tom’s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely,
potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
claims don’t correlate so difficult to know.

I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

Roger Merriman

[Jeff Liebermann]

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

Lord knows what the truth of Tom’s disability is,

No need to ask for a divine interpretation when it's much easier to
ask the Alameda County Sheriff for the details:

04/28/2010
DUI arrest and non-appearance
<https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/44604354/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.htm>
"Arrested For 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08"
<https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/49646718/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.html>
"Arrested For WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"
These would seem to suggest that excessive alcohol consumption may
have been involved.

Yet another hint:
<https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/>
"I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
The "4 car wrecks" suggests that Tom tried very hard (4 times) to
injure himself, but failed.

Epilepsy seems likely,
potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
claims don’t correlate so difficult to know.

The diagnosis and prognosis seems to change depending on whether Tom
wants to play millionaire or victim. What I find amusing is that the
original accident occurred in 2010 but Tom waiting 6 years to warn the
world that all carbon fiber bicycles will self disassemble and injury
the rider after about 2 years of riding. He uses himself as an
example of two consecutive such a failures, allegedly on July 5 and
July 10, 2016, which seems rather improbable because the accident
occurred in 2010.

"Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes"
<https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
"On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
(July 10, 2016).
<https://www.cyclingforums.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.453355/>
(July 10, 2016)
<https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1073471-danger-carbon-fiber-bikes.html>
(July 10, 2016)
<https://medium.com/@cyclintom/on-dec-18-2009-i-was-riding-my-bicycle-with-a-group-and-we-were-coming-off-of-a-bicycle-trail-9f9d582a9b42>
(Dec 12, 2016).

I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.
Roger Merriman

[Roger Merriman]

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

Lord knows what the truth of Tom’s disability is,

No need to ask for a divine interpretation when it's much easier to
04/28/2010
DUI arrest and non-appearance
<https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/44604354/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.htm>
"Arrested For 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08"
<https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/49646718/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.html>
"Arrested For WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"
These would seem to suggest that excessive alcohol consumption may
have been involved.

Oh I’m sure about that at least. Ie booze.

Post by Jeff Liebermann
<https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/>
"I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
The "4 car wrecks" suggests that Tom tried very hard (4 times) to
injure himself, but failed.

Folks don’t tend to remember seizures, as generally it causes loss of
consciousness or a degree of it, nor is there such as thing as severe
concussion, it’s all a brain injury, though generally in lay terms and
medical concussions are slightly separated mainly due to that people mostly
recovering some folks do indeed get symptoms after hence the catchy term,
post concussion syndrome.

Ie are certainly folks who have symptoms that persist and the severity
isn’t linear to the severity of the injury ie some folks seem to walk way
from significant injury with out much disability others are less fortunate,
which suggests that our understanding isn’t particularly good enough yet.

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Epilepsy seems likely,
potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
claims don’t correlate so difficult to know.

The diagnosis and prognosis seems to change depending on whether Tom
wants to play millionaire or victim. What I find amusing is that the
original accident occurred in 2010 but Tom waiting 6 years to warn the
world that all carbon fiber bicycles will self disassemble and injury
the rider after about 2 years of riding. He uses himself as an
example of two consecutive such a failures, allegedly on July 5 and
July 10, 2016, which seems rather improbable because the accident
occurred in 2010.
"Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes"
<https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
"On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
(July 10, 2016).
<https://www.cyclingforums.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.453355/>
(July 10, 2016)
<https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1073471-danger-carbon-fiber-bikes.html>
(July 10, 2016)
(Dec 12, 2016).

That I have noticed yes.

Post by Jeff Liebermann

I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.
Roger Merriman

Roger Merriman

[zen cycle]

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by Roger Merriman

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

Lord knows what the truth of Tom’s disability is,

No need to ask for a divine interpretation when it's much easier to
04/28/2010
DUI arrest and non-appearance
<https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/44604354/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.htm>
"Arrested For 23152(A/B) - DUI Alcohol W/BAC > .08"
<https://www.localcrimenews.com/welcome/detail/49646718/thomas-h-kunich-arrest.html>
"Arrested For WARRANT - Warrants Or Holds Only"
These would seem to suggest that excessive alcohol consumption may
have been involved.
<https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/>
"I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
The "4 car wrecks" suggests that Tom tried very hard (4 times) to
injure himself, but failed.

Alcoholics tend to wreck their cars.

Post by Jeff Liebermann

Post by Roger Merriman
Epilepsy seems likely,
potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
claims don’t correlate so difficult to know.

The diagnosis and prognosis seems to change depending on whether Tom
wants to play millionaire or victim. What I find amusing is that the
original accident occurred in 2010 but Tom waiting 6 years to warn the
world that all carbon fiber bicycles will self disassemble and injury
the rider after about 2 years of riding. He uses himself as an
example of two consecutive such a failures, allegedly on July 5 and
July 10, 2016, which seems rather improbable because the accident
occurred in 2010.
"Danger From Carbon Fiber Bikes"
<https://www.twospoke.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.17594/>
"On the way back to Castro Valley, my friend Tom Kunich (who was also
riding a full carbon fiber Colnago C-40) crashed on the downhill."
(July 10, 2016).
<https://www.cyclingforums.com/threads/danger-from-carbon-fiber-bikes.453355/>
(July 10, 2016)
<https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1073471-danger-carbon-fiber-bikes.html>
(July 10, 2016)
(Dec 12, 2016).

Post by Roger Merriman
I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.
Roger Merriman

[AMuzi]

On 25 Jan 2025 23:15:09 GMT, Roger Merriman

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

-snip much-


"Alcoholics tend to wreck their cars."

In a perfect world. In reality they are very hard on
girlfriends' and buddies' cars.

[Catrike Ryder]

Post by AMuzi

On 25 Jan 2025 23:15:09 GMT, Roger Merriman

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

-snip much-
"Alcoholics tend to wreck their cars."
In a perfect world. In reality they are very hard on
girlfriends' and buddies' cars.

Or their husband's cars..

--
C'est bon
Soloman

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 26 Jan 2025 06:58:52 -0500, zen cycle

Post by zen cycle

Post by Jeff Liebermann
<https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:ugcPost:6912346811772932096/>
"I got a severe concussion in 2010 that led to a type of seizures that
I didn't remember afterwards. This wasn't discovered and treated
properly until 2012 after 4 car wrecks luckily without any injuries"
The "4 car wrecks" suggests that Tom tried very hard (4 times) to
injure himself, but failed.

Alcoholics tend to wreck their cars.

True. I learned that early life. In college, when the horde wanted
to visit the local bar for some special occasion, I was the designated
driver. My price was they buy me dinner and they clean out the vomit
from the upholstery.

A previous place of employment was located next to the restaurant
which offered a bar. We were celebrating someone's retirement after
work. I usually drink something non-alcoholic at such occasions but
this time, someone handed me some kind of drink, which I didn't
realize was very strong. I sipped a small amount, didn't like it, and
left the remainder in the glass.

The party lasted 1 to 2 hours. On my drive home, my route crosses a
railroad crossing. I saw the crossing lights flashing and the bells
ringing but didn't see or hear a train or train horn. I stopped,
looked to my left, looked to my right and only then noticed that the
crossing gate was sitting on my windshield. I had stopped with the
front of my truck very close to the tracks. That's also when I heard
the train horn. I was obviously intoxicated. All I could do was
backup, dragging the lowered crossing gate across my car hood which
broke off the car antenna. The train did not hit me. When the train
finally went past, I saw my neighbors also waiting for the train, but
on the opposite side of the tracks. They were laughing. Over the
next week, they made sure that everyone they knew heard the story.

Today, the only drinking I do are the ritual 4 (small) cups of wine
during the Passover Seder. There were a few other incidents, but none
of them involved a potential car wreck.

I wonder if Tom's auto insurance company had something to say after 4
car wrecks, a DUI and a no show court appearance?

[cyclintom]

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

Lord knows what the truth of Tom?s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely,
potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
claims don?t correlate so difficult to know.
I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

The neurologist finally came clean and told me that I contracted epilepsy from the brain damage.

[Roger Merriman]

Post by cyclintom

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

Lord knows what the truth of Tom?s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely,
potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
claims don?t correlate so difficult to know.
I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

The neurologist finally came clean and told me that I contracted epilepsy
from the brain damage.

Almost certainly though as ever unless there is a nice bit of scar tissue
that can be picked up by scans it’s down to probability, of which it seemed
rather likely that you had Epilepsy for ages just from what you reported.

Roger Merriman

[AMuzi]

Post by Roger Merriman

Post by cyclintom

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

Lord knows what the truth of Tom?s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely,
potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
claims don?t correlate so difficult to know.
I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

The neurologist finally came clean and told me that I contracted epilepsy
from the brain damage.

Almost certainly though as ever unless there is a nice bit of scar tissue
that can be picked up by scans it’s down to probability, of which it seemed
rather likely that you had Epilepsy for ages just from what you reported.
Roger Merriman

Hard to say but physical brain trauma can indeed result in
epileptic symptoms.

https://www.epilepsy.com/causes/structural/traumatic-brain-injury-and-epilepsy

I knew such a sufferer. That said, we are not qualified to
decide which was first.

[Roger Merriman]

Post by AMuzi

Post by Roger Merriman

Post by cyclintom

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

Lord knows what the truth of Tom?s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely,
potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
claims don?t correlate so difficult to know.
I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

The neurologist finally came clean and told me that I contracted epilepsy
from the brain damage.

Almost certainly though as ever unless there is a nice bit of scar tissue
that can be picked up by scans it’s down to probability, of which it seemed
rather likely that you had Epilepsy for ages just from what you reported.
Roger Merriman

Hard to say but physical brain trauma can indeed result in
epileptic symptoms.
https://www.epilepsy.com/causes/structural/traumatic-brain-injury-and-epilepsy

Absolutely though as our scans are still quite basic, so a brain can appear
normal despite symptoms of brain damage. Doesn’t mean it’s not there just
our scans aren’t sophisticated enough, also just having some scars on the
brain doesn’t mean your chances of epilepsy are 100%

I believe the risks from Epilepsy ie chances post brain injury while
remaining higher than, the population do drop significantly in the first
few years.

Post by AMuzi
I knew such a sufferer. That said, we are not qualified to
decide which was first.

Nor would an epilepsy specialist in my experience they tend to work in
probabilities than hard facts, folks can have scars and other things
symptoms free, Epilepsy as with lot of brain conditions sometimes there
isn’t a clear explanation ie no clear cause.

Tom’s case where he reported some sort of head injury, yet claimed though
seeing doctors and prescribed anti seizure medication that it wasn’t
epilepsy I have enough experience both in my work and medical life to know
this is unlikely.

Let alone his history with being arrested for drink driving etc, which adds
in another potential cause, than head trauma, it’s very unlikely they would
of done a scan and found a scar, as no medical justification for such
things, and scans tend to only pick up big stuff.

His posting around this has been inconsistent and so on, hence my cynicism.

Roger Merriman

[cyclintom]

Post by Roger Merriman

Post by cyclintom

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

Lord knows what the truth of Tom?s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely,
potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
claims don?t correlate so difficult to know.
I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

The neurologist finally came clean and told me that I contracted epilepsy
from the brain damage.

Almost certainly though as ever unless there is a nice bit of scar tissue
that can be picked up by scans it?s down to probability, of which it seemed
rather likely that you had Epilepsy for ages just from what you reported.

Epilepsy can e one resule of a cobcussion Anotherbcan be av shurt term ubconciousness with no limgering after effects. Now tell me again that there is no mild or no severe. Why they are all the same according to you.

[Roger Merriman]

Post by cyclintom

Post by Roger Merriman

Post by cyclintom

Post by Shadow
On Fri, 24 Jan 2025 16:11:54 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich

Post by Tom Kunich
You seem to be completely unaware of Jeff's serious health problems.

Not as serious as your problems.
01/06/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/K-cG5lehtd0/m/X3FtbYbXAAAJ>
"I am permanently disabled and so is the cop who managed to get me
back from the last step from death."

Lord knows what the truth of Tom?s disability is, Epilepsy seems likely,
potentially from the concussion maybe some vestibular something as ever his
claims don?t correlate so difficult to know.
I absolutely am disabled and probably by quite bit more, my ability to work
and earn and well function is quite reduced from what it was.

The neurologist finally came clean and told me that I contracted epilepsy
from the brain damage.

Almost certainly though as ever unless there is a nice bit of scar tissue
that can be picked up by scans it?s down to probability, of which it seemed
rather likely that you had Epilepsy for ages just from what you reported.

Epilepsy can e one resule of a cobcussion Anotherbcan be av shurt term
ubconciousness with no limgering after effects. Now tell me again that
there is no mild or no severe. Why they are all the same according to you.

Concussion is the mildest of the brain injuries it’s really lay speak older
medical definition which doesn’t really fit into what we know now.

Epilepsy can be caused by lots of things some major some minor, similar to
diabetes for example which has more complicated causes than the “just
eating too much” one of my relatives died from it post 1st world war
probably triggered by trauma.

The correlation between someone’s injuries and The level of disability
isn’t linear, hence things like the Glasgow Coma score life
expectancy/disability is good at the severe end (neither of us are) with
folks who had low signal digit scores, and who may well have been in a coma
for months/years.

But folks in the moderate it’s much less so, and at mild it’s fairly
useless, especially as we have learnt more, mainly how little we know as is
the way of things.

One of the newer relative speaking, is Post Concussion Syndrome as the
realisation that even such “mild” conditions as Concussion can have long
term consequences and the more research is done the more is found.

Yes absolutely this stuff sucks and having a major impact called minor can
rankle but that’s medical speak for you, plus the ever human urge to
categories ie simplify what is complicated.

If you wanted to avail yourself of facts there are number of US based brain
injury associations and organisations.

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

Post by Frank Krygowski
For Jeff: I keep thinking about his tall stairway and firewood lugging.
Here's an idea: http://youtu.be/R0OwuhFMf_o
You could compete against Tom in the vertical feet climbing contest.

That stuff is called "Spectra" and is used to make bullet proof vests.