Centaur 111mm vs Shimano 113mm

[j***@gmail.com]

Hi,

I have a crankset that is supposed to use a JIS 113mm square taper BB.
In the process of swapping things around I killed the threads on my
Shimano 113mm BB, and critically wounded the threads in the frame. I
have a 111mm 2006 Centaur BB that I would like to install, but I am
afraid the threads in the frame will not survive another install/remove
so I can't just try it out. I think th eframe will survive an install,
but not another remove. I also have a 111mm AC-S I could use.

The reason I am doing this is I am juggling around my collection of
bikes and parts with the intent of selling most of it, and if this
111mm Centaur would work in place of the 113mm JIS then everything
would work out accoring to plan. The crankset has been previously
mounted on the 113 and there was plenty of clearance everywhere, so I
think the 111 would work fine, but I'm not sure.

The idea is to use my special crankset with the Centuar BB and then
just swap the special cranks with the Centaur cranks when I feel like
it. If I also have to swap the BB too to do so, it gets more
complicated because of the damaged threads.

Joseph

[r***@yahoo.com]

Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi,
I have a crankset that is supposed to use a JIS 113mm square taper BB.
In the process of swapping things around I killed the threads on my
Shimano 113mm BB, and critically wounded the threads in the frame. I
have a 111mm 2006 Centaur BB that I would like to install, but I am
afraid the threads in the frame will not survive another install/remove
so I can't just try it out. I think th eframe will survive an install,
but not another remove. I also have a 111mm AC-S I could use.
The reason I am doing this is I am juggling around my collection of
bikes and parts with the intent of selling most of it, and if this
111mm Centaur would work in place of the 113mm JIS then everything
would work out accoring to plan. The crankset has been previously
mounted on the 113 and there was plenty of clearance everywhere, so I
think the 111 would work fine, but I'm not sure.
The idea is to use my special crankset with the Centuar BB and then
just swap the special cranks with the Centaur cranks when I feel like
it. If I also have to swap the BB too to do so, it gets more
complicated because of the damaged threads.
Joseph

1. 111 or 113 is meaningless. If anyone claims they can tell the
difference in length, they are full of it.

2. Campagnolo bottom bracket uses ISO taper whereas Shimano bottom
bracket uses JIS taper. I think the Campagnolo taper starts at a
smaller overall size, so a Shimano crank will slide up further onto the
Campagnolo bottom bracket. If there is not sufficient clearance, then
a crank needing 113 might slide a little too far on the smaller
Campagnolo taper and end up with not enough clearance.

3. I use only square taper cranksets. None of this hollow new fangled
bottom bracket stuff for me. But I still don't like to pull and
reinstall the crank arms too often on the square taper bottom brackets.
So I would not like your idea of switching the cranks around even if I
did not have to mess with the bottom bracket.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by r***@yahoo.com

Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi,
I have a crankset that is supposed to use a JIS 113mm square taper BB.
In the process of swapping things around I killed the threads on my
Shimano 113mm BB, and critically wounded the threads in the frame. I
have a 111mm 2006 Centaur BB that I would like to install, but I am
afraid the threads in the frame will not survive another install/remove
so I can't just try it out. I think th eframe will survive an install,
but not another remove. I also have a 111mm AC-S I could use.
The reason I am doing this is I am juggling around my collection of
bikes and parts with the intent of selling most of it, and if this
111mm Centaur would work in place of the 113mm JIS then everything
would work out accoring to plan. The crankset has been previously
mounted on the 113 and there was plenty of clearance everywhere, so I
think the 111 would work fine, but I'm not sure.
The idea is to use my special crankset with the Centuar BB and then
just swap the special cranks with the Centaur cranks when I feel like
it. If I also have to swap the BB too to do so, it gets more
complicated because of the damaged threads.
Joseph

1. 111 or 113 is meaningless. If anyone claims they can tell the
difference in length, they are full of it.
2. Campagnolo bottom bracket uses ISO taper whereas Shimano bottom
bracket uses JIS taper. I think the Campagnolo taper starts at a
smaller overall size, so a Shimano crank will slide up further onto the
Campagnolo bottom bracket. If there is not sufficient clearance, then
a crank needing 113 might slide a little too far on the smaller
Campagnolo taper and end up with not enough clearance.

That's the only thing I'm worried about. With the 113 there was about
4-5mm clearance to the chainstay. That's from memory. So I am concerned
that the clearance may actually have been less, so I don't know what
sort of margin I have to work with. And is the Centaur asymmetric?

Post by r***@yahoo.com
3. I use only square taper cranksets. None of this hollow new fangled
bottom bracket stuff for me. But I still don't like to pull and
reinstall the crank arms too often on the square taper bottom brackets.
So I would not like your idea of switching the cranks around even if I
did not have to mess with the bottom bracket.

I don't really plan to switch too often, but the bike is going to be
for sale and I expect that to take a while, during which time I want to
use my special cranks, but the sale will include the regular Centaur
crank. So it won't be switched often, ideally once at most.

Joseph

[r***@yahoo.com]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by r***@yahoo.com

Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi,
I have a crankset that is supposed to use a JIS 113mm square taper BB.
In the process of swapping things around I killed the threads on my
Shimano 113mm BB, and critically wounded the threads in the frame. I
have a 111mm 2006 Centaur BB that I would like to install, but I am
afraid the threads in the frame will not survive another install/remove
so I can't just try it out. I think th eframe will survive an install,
but not another remove. I also have a 111mm AC-S I could use.
The reason I am doing this is I am juggling around my collection of
bikes and parts with the intent of selling most of it, and if this
111mm Centaur would work in place of the 113mm JIS then everything
would work out accoring to plan. The crankset has been previously
mounted on the 113 and there was plenty of clearance everywhere, so I
think the 111 would work fine, but I'm not sure.
The idea is to use my special crankset with the Centuar BB and then
just swap the special cranks with the Centaur cranks when I feel like
it. If I also have to swap the BB too to do so, it gets more
complicated because of the damaged threads.
Joseph

1. 111 or 113 is meaningless. If anyone claims they can tell the
difference in length, they are full of it.
2. Campagnolo bottom bracket uses ISO taper whereas Shimano bottom
bracket uses JIS taper. I think the Campagnolo taper starts at a
smaller overall size, so a Shimano crank will slide up further onto the
Campagnolo bottom bracket. If there is not sufficient clearance, then
a crank needing 113 might slide a little too far on the smaller
Campagnolo taper and end up with not enough clearance.

That's the only thing I'm worried about. With the 113 there was about
4-5mm clearance to the chainstay. That's from memory. So I am concerned
that the clearance may actually have been less, so I don't know what
sort of margin I have to work with. And is the Centaur asymmetric?

Centaur, Veloce, Mirage 111mm bottom bracket axle is symmetrical. The
Record and Chorus 111 mm triple bottom bracket axle is asymmetrical.

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by r***@yahoo.com
3. I use only square taper cranksets. None of this hollow new fangled
bottom bracket stuff for me. But I still don't like to pull and
reinstall the crank arms too often on the square taper bottom brackets.
So I would not like your idea of switching the cranks around even if I
did not have to mess with the bottom bracket.

I don't really plan to switch too often, but the bike is going to be
for sale and I expect that to take a while, during which time I want to
use my special cranks, but the sale will include the regular Centaur
crank. So it won't be switched often, ideally once at most.
Joseph

[Phil Lee, Squid]

Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi,
I have a crankset that is supposed to use a JIS 113mm square taper BB.
In the process of swapping things around I killed the threads on my
Shimano 113mm BB, and critically wounded the threads in the frame. I
have a 111mm 2006 Centaur BB that I would like to install, but I am
afraid the threads in the frame will not survive another
install/remove so I can't just try it out. I think th eframe will
survive an install, but not another remove. I also have a 111mm AC-S
I could use.
The reason I am doing this is I am juggling around my collection of
bikes and parts with the intent of selling most of it, and if this
111mm Centaur would work in place of the 113mm JIS then everything
would work out accoring to plan. The crankset has been previously
mounted on the 113 and there was plenty of clearance everywhere, so I
think the 111 would work fine, but I'm not sure.
The idea is to use my special crankset with the Centuar BB and then
just swap the special cranks with the Centaur cranks when I feel like
it. If I also have to swap the BB too to do so, it gets more
complicated because of the damaged threads.
Joseph

Did I miss the question, or is there none?

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Phil Lee, Squid

Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi,
I have a crankset that is supposed to use a JIS 113mm square taper BB.
In the process of swapping things around I killed the threads on my
Shimano 113mm BB, and critically wounded the threads in the frame. I
have a 111mm 2006 Centaur BB that I would like to install, but I am
afraid the threads in the frame will not survive another
install/remove so I can't just try it out. I think th eframe will
survive an install, but not another remove. I also have a 111mm AC-S
I could use.
The reason I am doing this is I am juggling around my collection of
bikes and parts with the intent of selling most of it, and if this
111mm Centaur would work in place of the 113mm JIS then everything
would work out accoring to plan. The crankset has been previously
mounted on the 113 and there was plenty of clearance everywhere, so I
think the 111 would work fine, but I'm not sure.
The idea is to use my special crankset with the Centuar BB and then
just swap the special cranks with the Centaur cranks when I feel like
it. If I also have to swap the BB too to do so, it gets more
complicated because of the damaged threads.
Joseph

Did I miss the question, or is there none?

Question is:

Crankset calls for a 113mm Shimano BB. Can I use a 111mm Centuar BB
instead?

Testing is not not really an option because of the damaged threads in
the frame.

Joseph

[Qui si parla Campagnolo]

Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi,
I have a crankset that is supposed to use a JIS 113mm square taper BB.
In the process of swapping things around I killed the threads on my
Shimano 113mm BB, and critically wounded the threads in the frame. I
have a 111mm 2006 Centaur BB that I would like to install, but I am
afraid the threads in the frame will not survive another install/remove
so I can't just try it out. I think th eframe will survive an install,
but not another remove. I also have a 111mm AC-S I could use.
The reason I am doing this is I am juggling around my collection of
bikes and parts with the intent of selling most of it, and if this
111mm Centaur would work in place of the 113mm JIS then everything
would work out accoring to plan. The crankset has been previously
mounted on the 113 and there was plenty of clearance everywhere, so I
think the 111 would work fine, but I'm not sure.
The idea is to use my special crankset with the Centuar BB and then
just swap the special cranks with the Centaur cranks when I feel like
it. If I also have to swap the BB too to do so, it gets more
complicated because of the damaged threads.
Joseph

JIS taper is larger than ISO(Campag) in millimeters. So using a
'thinner' BB(Centaur or AC-S) in 111mm instead of a 'larger' spindle of
113mm probably will draw the crank on too far.

Also, consider having the BB threads of the frame cleaned up by a good
bike shop with the proper tap.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Qui si parla Campagnolo

Post by j***@gmail.com
Hi,
I have a crankset that is supposed to use a JIS 113mm square taper BB.
In the process of swapping things around I killed the threads on my
Shimano 113mm BB, and critically wounded the threads in the frame. I
have a 111mm 2006 Centaur BB that I would like to install, but I am
afraid the threads in the frame will not survive another install/remove
so I can't just try it out. I think th eframe will survive an install,
but not another remove. I also have a 111mm AC-S I could use.
The reason I am doing this is I am juggling around my collection of
bikes and parts with the intent of selling most of it, and if this
111mm Centaur would work in place of the 113mm JIS then everything
would work out accoring to plan. The crankset has been previously
mounted on the 113 and there was plenty of clearance everywhere, so I
think the 111 would work fine, but I'm not sure.
The idea is to use my special crankset with the Centuar BB and then
just swap the special cranks with the Centaur cranks when I feel like
it. If I also have to swap the BB too to do so, it gets more
complicated because of the damaged threads.
Joseph

JIS taper is larger than ISO(Campag) in millimeters. So using a
'thinner' BB(Centaur or AC-S) in 111mm instead of a 'larger' spindle of
113mm probably will draw the crank on too far.

How much further do you suppose?

Post by Qui si parla Campagnolo
Also, consider having the BB threads of the frame cleaned up by a good
bike shop with the proper tap.

That's sort of a last option. None of the locals have ITA chasers.

Joseph

[Paul Kopit]

Post by j***@gmail.com
I think th eframe will survive an install,
but not another remove. I also have a 111mm AC-S I could use.

The 111 ISO would be too short. It would approximate a 107 JIS.

I've had luck using a steel threaded bb cup to as a quasi chaser in
bad threads. It's worked for me. You might do that with the steel
Campy bb.

[j***@gmail.com]

Post by Paul Kopit

Post by j***@gmail.com
I think th eframe will survive an install,
but not another remove. I also have a 111mm AC-S I could use.

The 111 ISO would be too short. It would approximate a 107 JIS.

So the cranks, chainline, etc would be 3mm closer toward the
centerline? I could live with that.

Post by Paul Kopit
I've had luck using a steel threaded bb cup to as a quasi chaser in
bad threads. It's worked for me. You might do that with the steel
Campy bb.

You mean one of the AC-S's? The problem is the lousy tool I have for
that BB slips off so easily when the going gets rough. I'll probably
give that a try. In all likelyhood, I'll end up having to make the trek
to a shop that can deal with the threads.

Joseph

[Pete Biggs]

Post by j***@gmail.com

Post by Paul Kopit
I've had luck using a steel threaded bb cup to as a quasi chaser in
bad threads. It's worked for me. You might do that with the steel
Campy bb.

You mean one of the AC-S's?

SC-S = *Steel* Cups, Solid spindle

AC-S = Alloy Cups, Solid spindle

AC-H = Alloy cups, Hollow spindle

Post by j***@gmail.com
The problem is the lousy tool I have for
that BB slips off so easily when the going gets rough. I'll probably
give that a try. In all likelyhood, I'll end up having to make the
trek to a shop that can deal with the threads.

Or order a Tacx T4425 tool - doesn't slip.

~PB