Freehub service Oil or Grease?

[TheCoz]

Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed & Confuzed Coz

[James]

Post by TheCoz
Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed & Confuzed Coz

In the free hub ratchet assy, use medium to light oil. Motor oil is
probably ok (15w-?). Gear oil (80w-90) probably to heavy.

Grease and heavy oil can prevent the pawls from freely engaging the
ratchet teeth in the free hub. The result is that the free hub can slip
when you start to pedal after a period of free wheeling.

In a free hub with pawls pushed out with a light spring action this will
be more of a problem. I have been known to stretch the springs a little
to make them push out harder. Don't worry about that causing more
friction, as the friction is tiny and only when you free wheel anyway.

Bearings can use a little grease, if they're not sealed cartridge types.

Sealed cartridge bearings should be replaced if there is excessive play.
They can usually be pressed out and new ones pressed in. Check for
generic parts and buy from a bearing shop if possible, as the bike shops
may fleece you selling "genuine" OEM bearings, that are no different but
2-3 times the price.

I have been known to remove the seals and clean and relubricate seal
cartridge bearings. You might get a little more life out of them, but
if they're at all loose or rough the seals are likely stuffed already,
and the internals likewise.

[Tom Ace]

Post by James
In the free hub ratchet assy, use medium to light oil. Motor oil is
probably ok (15w-?). Gear oil (80w-90) probably to heavy.

Perhaps too heavy but not as far off as the numbers suggest.
Motor oil and gear oil are graded on different scales,
which makes as much sense as having different numberings
for shoe sizes and sock sizes.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

I'm not criticizing your recommendation nor suggesting that
you didn't know this. I'm only clarifying a point as long
as we're on the subject.

Tom Ace

[thirty-six]

Post by Tom Ace

In the free hub ratchet assy, use medium to light oil.  Motor oil is
probably ok (15w-?).  Gear oil (80w-90) probably to heavy.

Perhaps too heavy but not as far off as the numbers suggest.
Motor oil and gear oil are graded on different scales,
which makes as much sense as having different numberings
for shoe sizes and sock sizes.
 http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
I'm not criticizing your recommendation nor suggesting that
you didn't know this.  I'm only clarifying a point as long
as we're on the subject.
Tom Ace

Both have worked fine for me with freewheels but I don't want to be
handling smelly gear or hypoid oil anymore. That's being
overenthusiastic for a free-running clutch IMO.

[TheCoz]

Post by thirty-six

Post by Tom Ace

In the free hub ratchet assy, use medium to light oil.  Motor oil is
probably ok (15w-?).  Gear oil (80w-90) probably to heavy.

Perhaps too heavy but not as far off as the numbers suggest.
Motor oil and gear oil are graded on different scales,
which makes as much sense as having different numberings
for shoe sizes and sock sizes.
 http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
I'm not criticizing your recommendation nor suggesting that
you didn't know this.  I'm only clarifying a point as long
as we're on the subject.
Tom Ace

Both have worked fine for me with freewheels but I don't want to be
handling smelly gear or hypoid oil anymore.  That's being
overenthusiastic for a free-running clutch IMO.

I agree with using grease in the bearing hubs. But I am more confuzed
about the freehub pawls. I would think grease is too thick and may
cause some sticking of the pawls. But, oil too thin and may tend to
leak out.
Most had original grease already there. Zipp sayz to use 30w motor oil
in pawls. Mavic sayz mineral oil (Kyserim SL). HED sayz grease. Why
are the manufacturers so different on lube types??
Crazy Coz

[thirty-six]

Post by TheCoz

Post by thirty-six

Post by Tom Ace

In the free hub ratchet assy, use medium to light oil.  Motor oil is
probably ok (15w-?).  Gear oil (80w-90) probably to heavy.

Perhaps too heavy but not as far off as the numbers suggest.
Motor oil and gear oil are graded on different scales,
which makes as much sense as having different numberings
for shoe sizes and sock sizes.
 http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
I'm not criticizing your recommendation nor suggesting that
you didn't know this.  I'm only clarifying a point as long
as we're on the subject.
Tom Ace

Both have worked fine for me with freewheels but I don't want to be
handling smelly gear or hypoid oil anymore.  That's being
overenthusiastic for a free-running clutch IMO.

I agree with using grease in the bearing hubs. But I am more confuzed
about the freehub pawls. I would think grease is too thick and may
cause some sticking of the pawls. But, oil too thin and may tend to
leak out.
Most had original grease already there. Zipp sayz to use 30w motor oil
in pawls. Mavic sayz mineral oil (Kyserim SL). HED sayz grease. Why
are the manufacturers so different on lube types??
Crazy Coz

Because all of them are right and none of them are right. What you
specifically use is appropriate for your circumstances. MoS2 has the
advantage of bonding to steel with sulphur providing lubricity and
inhibits corrosion. Thon


- What it wont do it wash away wear particles or provide a collection
reservoir for them, hence why it is typically used with an oil or
grease.

[James]

Post by Tom Ace

Post by James
In the free hub ratchet assy, use medium to light oil. Motor oil is
probably ok (15w-?). Gear oil (80w-90) probably to heavy.

Perhaps too heavy but not as far off as the numbers suggest.
Motor oil and gear oil are graded on different scales,
which makes as much sense as having different numberings
for shoe sizes and sock sizes.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
I'm not criticizing your recommendation nor suggesting that
you didn't know this. I'm only clarifying a point as long
as we're on the subject.

And it's a good point. I've never delved into why the grand masters of
oil viscosity used different scales. Perhaps we should talk ISO 3348
instead. It seems less confusing. Here's my guess.

ISO 3348 viscosity of 32 and below would be fine.
ISO 3348 viscosity of 100 and above may be too heavy.

[somebody]

Post by Tom Ace

Post by James
In the free hub ratchet assy, use medium to light oil. Motor oil is
probably ok (15w-?). Gear oil (80w-90) probably to heavy.

Perhaps too heavy but not as far off as the numbers suggest.
Motor oil and gear oil are graded on different scales,
which makes as much sense as having different numberings
for shoe sizes and sock sizes.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/
I'm not criticizing your recommendation nor suggesting that
you didn't know this. I'm only clarifying a point as long
as we're on the subject.
Tom Ace

I tried a heavier oil. Worked OK in the summer. But in fall the
pawls would bind up. Light oil seems to work OK all the time.

[datakoll]

TRY Finish Line Silicone grease or find a synthetic marine boat trailer bearing grease if local conditions are abysmal. Oil evaporates, changes composition qualities in viscosity, and as a category in viscosity, drains downward.

Grease is stickier more protective designed for the hub application.

Oil is faster so oil has a WE'RE GONNA GO FASTER support group.

Doahn pack the hubs with grease, coat parts with grease. You nhave several so try one repack/rebearing n see how it goes.

[thirty-six]

Post by datakoll
TRY Finish Line Silicone grease or find a synthetic marine boat trailer bearing grease if local conditions are abysmal. Oil evaporates, changes composition qualities in viscosity, and as a category in viscosity, drains downward.
Grease is stickier more protective designed for the hub application.
Oil is faster so oil has a WE'RE GONNA GO FASTER support group.
Doahn pack the hubs with grease, coat parts with grease. You nhave several so try one repack/rebearing n see how it goes.

My usual trick has been to have the race and cone area filled with a
calcium grease and add cycle oil (Weldtte) until the axle
significantly frees up and the grease is loose, but not slack. In
traditional bearings there has always then been enough space as once
the dustcao is put on any excess can easily squeeze along the axle or
between axle and dustcap. Calcium grease is very useful as it
stiffens before losing lubricating and ant-oxidative properties.
Merely rotating the wheel and seeing that it rocks before resting
makes clear that there is sufficient oil left in the calcium soap.
Oil is added through the dustcaps on my wheels. For crank bearings i
go through a hole inthe "aero" bracket and through a Campag' dust
jacket in my ex-racer.

[datakoll]

Post by TheCoz
Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed & Confuzed Coz

HHHHHH

are the manufacturers lined up in any way for oil or grease ? birds of a feather ? orn can hubs be designed specifiically for oil or grease, low - high viscosity. You read J sez gear oil is too thick...but gear oil has retention to plate addoitives....good for wear but some would say sicky menas we have to pedal harder to pry the plates apart which is....

lotta forum discussion...prob find brake fluid, vegtable oil,

here's the HM

http://www.livestrong.com/article/127475-bicycle-bearing-grease-types/

[datakoll]

Post by TheCoz
Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed & Confuzed Coz

GGGGGGGGG

try

https://www.google.com/search?q=++GOOGLE.COM&rlz=1I7GGLJ_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7#hl=en&tbo=d&rlz=1I7GGLJ_en&sclient=psy-ab&q=low+viscosity+waterproof+silicone+gear+grease&oq=low+viscosity+waterproof+silicone+gear+grease&gs_l=serp.3...2442.31240.1.31907.54.45.0.9.9.13.237.7031.0j39j5.44.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.JFPj1PL_Kdw&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=5e1c5912fb8c26a3&bpcl=38626820&biw=1152&bih=614

the shelf here has 2 tubes Castrol Synthetic Marine Wheel Bearing Grease, a long term supply cool as its NLA...unreal good bicycle grease.

Finish Line is water soluble in comparison

[thirty-six]

Post by TheCoz
Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed & Confuzed Coz

As long as all the bearing surfaces are steel then a smear of MoS2
grease product is appropriate. Typical metal-soap grease loading is
not appropriate, which is why oil tends to be the popular choice for
the experienced. A typical NLGI 2 grease will be too stiff in the
winter and a NLGI 1 be too slack in the summer, which might be OK if
seals are good, but if so one may use motor oil with long service
interval.

[f***@gmail.com]

Post by TheCoz
Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed & Confuzed Coz

I agree with the oil users. I see no reason to use grease.

Mechanical parts barely need any lubrication when they don't move relative to one another, except perhaps a tiny amount to prevent sticking on release. So when you're pedaling and your freehub pawls are transmitting torque, they don't care about lube.

Mechanical parts need only very light lubrication when they're moving but not carrying loads. When you're coasting, the only loads are the weight of the cassettes and a tiny bit of derailleur tension on the chain. Near zero load needs near zero lubrication.

Oil will give enough lubrication, and you won't have to worry about grease possibly restricting the pawl engagement.

- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Post by TheCoz
Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed & Confuzed Coz

Remove axle assembly, run oil though ratchet assembly until
it runs clear and foreign material is removed. Do not flush
with solvent. We use a hypoid 90 gear oil similar to Chain-L
or Phil Wood, anything of that style will do. Generally,
don't use grease on freewheel or cassette pawls. They can
stick both in cold weather and also once dried/contaminated.

[datakoll]

I used Finish Line regular old fashioned silicone grease....both Phil Woods and FL were on hand...no problems down to 40 degrees but here's one from Dupont..

move over Sinclair

http://www.finishlineusa.com/downloads/pdf/Extreme_Fluoro_Info_Sheet.pdf

but if using hypoid go synthetic with Valvo Trans Oil then use the remainder quart from NAPA on the chain.

recommendations mshould match your temp/moisture conditions....in desert eg Andre i n El Paso, a bio oil would dry out.

[John B.]

Post by AMuzi

Post by TheCoz
Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed & Confuzed Coz

Remove axle assembly, run oil though ratchet assembly until
it runs clear and foreign material is removed. Do not flush
with solvent. We use a hypoid 90 gear oil similar to Chain-L
or Phil Wood, anything of that style will do. Generally,
don't use grease on freewheel or cassette pawls. They can
stick both in cold weather and also once dried/contaminated.

A question: Do you have a reason for using hypoid specific oil? Or is
that what you had at hand and it worked.

I ask because I was once involved in a project where nearly all of a
100 vehicle truck fleet had differentials that failed. It turned out
that the reason was that the operator "saved money" by using a
non-hypoid type gear oil. When repaired and lubed with hypoid gear
oil there were no more failures.

It seems that manufacturers who specify "hypoid oil" usually do have a
reason for it :-)

[AMuzi]

Post by John B.

Post by AMuzi

Post by TheCoz
Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed & Confuzed Coz

Remove axle assembly, run oil though ratchet assembly until
it runs clear and foreign material is removed. Do not flush
with solvent. We use a hypoid 90 gear oil similar to Chain-L
or Phil Wood, anything of that style will do. Generally,
don't use grease on freewheel or cassette pawls. They can
stick both in cold weather and also once dried/contaminated.

A question: Do you have a reason for using hypoid specific oil? Or is
that what you had at hand and it worked.
I ask because I was once involved in a project where nearly all of a
100 vehicle truck fleet had differentials that failed. It turned out
that the reason was that the operator "saved money" by using a
non-hypoid type gear oil. When repaired and lubed with hypoid gear
oil there were no more failures.
It seems that manufacturers who specify "hypoid oil" usually do have a
reason for it :-)

You're right that a drum of just about anything similar
would cost about the same and work about as well for most
applications.

We got used to having it handy long ago because it doesn't
foam in straight cut gearboxes (although those are
admittedly a smaller proportion of the market nowadays).
There's not much point in two drums of similar lubricant.
So, mostly a combination of inertia and what the hell.

And yes it also gets used here in differentials and manual
gearboxes.

[James]

Post by John B.

Post by AMuzi

Post by TheCoz
Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed& Confuzed Coz

Remove axle assembly, run oil though ratchet assembly until
it runs clear and foreign material is removed. Do not flush
with solvent. We use a hypoid 90 gear oil similar to Chain-L
or Phil Wood, anything of that style will do. Generally,
don't use grease on freewheel or cassette pawls. They can
stick both in cold weather and also once dried/contaminated.

A question: Do you have a reason for using hypoid specific oil? Or is
that what you had at hand and it worked.
I ask because I was once involved in a project where nearly all of a
100 vehicle truck fleet had differentials that failed. It turned out
that the reason was that the operator "saved money" by using a
non-hypoid type gear oil. When repaired and lubed with hypoid gear
oil there were no more failures.
It seems that manufacturers who specify "hypoid oil" usually do have a
reason for it :-)

Which manufacturer of bicycle free hubs specifies hypoid gear oil?

I can't understand why extra sulfur is needed in such a low stress
environment.

[datakoll]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil

I'd find if FL silicone grease stiffens at 'lower normal'cycling temps. Woods synth was rumored as developed in California.

[datakoll]

Post by datakoll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gear_oil
I'd find if FL silicone grease stiffens at 'lower normal'cycling temps. Woods synth was rumored as developed in California.

Flow rate at low temps for standard FL grease

http://www.pltlab.com/desc.html

LT-37 "U.S. Steel Method Mobility of Grease"

The flow properties of greases through a capillary at 150 psi and the selected test temperature is measured. The purpose of this test is to assure that pressurized grease lubricated systems will remain supplied with lubricant even under low temperature conditions. Temperatures from 25°C to -40°C can be tested. It has been experimentally determined that flow rates of less than 0.001 grams per second are technically frozen. Engineers may design systems to accommodate flow rates at selected temperatures based on this data.

GGGGGGGGG

http://www.finishlineusa.com/downloads/pdf/Teflon_Grease_Info_Sheet.pdf

[datakoll]

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=cost:+extreme+flouro+finish+line+grease&oq=cost:+extreme+flouro+finish+line+grease&gs_l=hp.12...3277.41572.1.43433.45.43.1.1.1.1.360.10688.0j3j35j5.43.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.S_40UaSIq9A&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=41117b9fe225635c&bpcl=38625945&biw=1152&bih=614

try it.

not mentioned n you can find it in the astm listed...

evap in free air. Valvo synth gear oil does evaporate on the chain but significantly slower than FL Epic. at 130-40 road temp SWFL

the systems for gear oil are enclosed not free air...I doahn no what the comparison for free air would be tween an M-40 and a deore hub.

[datakoll]

yeah get the 60 pound pail we'll be over for a sample

[John B.]

Post by James

Post by John B.

Post by AMuzi

Post by TheCoz
Catching up on some much needed service, I am cleaning and lubing the
freehubs on my wheelsets. Mavic, Shimano, Zipp and HED hubs. I have
been to all the manufactures web sites to read what to use as a
lubricant in each freehub. Some say light oil, others say light
grease. Which do you use with the best results?
Dazed& Confuzed Coz

Remove axle assembly, run oil though ratchet assembly until
it runs clear and foreign material is removed. Do not flush
with solvent. We use a hypoid 90 gear oil similar to Chain-L
or Phil Wood, anything of that style will do. Generally,
don't use grease on freewheel or cassette pawls. They can
stick both in cold weather and also once dried/contaminated.

A question: Do you have a reason for using hypoid specific oil? Or is
that what you had at hand and it worked.
I ask because I was once involved in a project where nearly all of a
100 vehicle truck fleet had differentials that failed. It turned out
that the reason was that the operator "saved money" by using a
non-hypoid type gear oil. When repaired and lubed with hypoid gear
oil there were no more failures.
It seems that manufacturers who specify "hypoid oil" usually do have a
reason for it :-)

Which manufacturer of bicycle free hubs specifies hypoid gear oil?
I can't understand why extra sulfur is needed in such a low stress
environment.

Err... if you are replying to my post the manufacturers I was
referring to was Toyota who built the trucks.