Discussion:
National Debt
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Tom Kunich
2024-11-24 22:34:55 UTC
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Permalink
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.

It took more than a decade after the war until the American economy began
working again. While that could very well be the case now, by closing down
most of the government EXCEPT that elected and needed, we could shorten
that up. We also have to design a means of deflating the dollar so that
things can get back to the point where a penny is still a piece of
currency and not some forgotten piece of past history.

It appears that Elon Musk wants to tie the dollar not to itself but to bit
coin currency. I don't like that idea. The dollar should remain the
currency of last resort and the Secret Service whose job it is to protect
the dollar against counterfeiting do have means to do so. China has been
pumping out counterfeit $100 bills for so long that they think that they
are an extension of the Federal Reserve.

Colnago just released a STEEL bike and are going to charge $18,000 for it.
Even with a Campagnolo Super Record wireless group on it that is
preposterous and we need to get the value of the dollar back under control.
John B.
2024-11-25 01:55:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
--
Cheers,

John B.
AMuzi
2024-11-25 02:02:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.

The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
John B.
2024-11-25 03:22:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?

I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.

Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.

The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
--
Cheers,

John B.
zen cycle
2024-11-25 11:57:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
That's from several sources:
https://dbpedia.org/page/History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
and this is from here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)

It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
John B.
2024-11-25 12:57:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 06:57:21 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I was replying to Mr. Andrew's post which wasn't attributed either...
(:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.
AMuzi
2024-11-25 13:38:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John B.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 06:57:21 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I was replying to Mr. Andrew's post which wasn't attributed either...
(:-)
Mine was from memory. No direct citation.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Zen Cycle
2024-11-25 14:39:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John B.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 06:57:21 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I was replying to Mr. Andrew's post which wasn't attributed either...
(:-)
Andrew has a discernible writing style.
You have a discernible writing style.

It's pretty obvious when Andrew is writing primary thought, as are you.
Andrews post was consistent with his primary thought style.
Yours wasn't.
--
Add xx to reply
AMuzi
2024-11-25 14:49:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by John B.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 06:57:21 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no
one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay
it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please
provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a
member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
   Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes
Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-
the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to
reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-
present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
I was replying to Mr. Andrew's post which wasn't
attributed either...
(:-)
Andrew has a discernible writing style.
You have a discernible writing style.
It's pretty obvious when Andrew is writing primary thought,
as are you.
Andrews post was consistent with his primary thought style.
Yours wasn't.
Thank you.

I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from
his handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and
grammar along the way. He was graded F with the comment,
"This is not your work."
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Zen Cycle
2024-11-25 15:16:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by John B.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 06:57:21 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
   Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the
peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with- the-oss-
agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/ History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945- present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I was replying to Mr. Andrew's post which wasn't attributed either...
(:-)
Andrew has a discernible writing style.
You have a discernible writing style.
It's pretty obvious when Andrew is writing primary thought, as are you.
Andrews post was consistent with his primary thought style.
Yours wasn't.
Thank you.
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along the
way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show his
original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read it for
grammar?
--
Add xx to reply
AMuzi
2024-11-25 15:53:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by John B.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 06:57:21 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no
one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same
as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to
pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections
of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please
provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet
with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a
member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of
Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil
rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
   Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end
French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years
after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes
Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed
to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his
men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-
the-oss- agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to
reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which
the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-
present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution,
john, even in usenet.
I was replying to Mr. Andrew's post which wasn't
attributed either...
(:-)
Andrew has a discernible writing style.
You have a discernible writing style.
It's pretty obvious when Andrew is writing primary
thought, as are you.
Andrews post was consistent with his primary thought style.
Yours wasn't.
Thank you.
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from
his handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and
grammar along the way. He was graded F with the comment,
"This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal
and show his original notes and explain he just had someone
else proof read it for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Zen Cycle
2024-11-25 16:53:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by John B.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 06:57:21 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
   Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the
peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with- the-oss-
agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/ History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945- present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I was replying to Mr. Andrew's post which wasn't attributed either...
(:-)
Andrew has a discernible writing style.
You have a discernible writing style.
It's pretty obvious when Andrew is writing primary thought, as are you.
Andrews post was consistent with his primary thought style.
Yours wasn't.
Thank you.
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along the
way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read it
for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
Be that as it is, John at least has an unanswered question.

"Please provide some more information on how the CIA started the Vietnam
war."

As much as Wilson was in fact a flagrant rascist, that didn't have much
of anything to do with the US first involvement in Vietnam more than 40
years later, let alone with whether the CIA actually started the war.
--
Add xx to reply
Frank Krygowski
2024-11-25 21:53:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along
the way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read it
for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
I should mention, having given failing grades for similar offenses, I
certainly would have reconsidered if given evidence. My office door was
always open to students.

The occasional problem was two students handing in identical work. My
policy then was to grade one of them, then divide the grade by the
number of identical copies. When a full page of calculations was
identical, number by number, it was pretty hard to pretend both were
original.

And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Zen Cycle
2024-11-25 21:55:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along
the way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read
it for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
I should mention, having given failing grades for similar offenses, I
certainly would have reconsidered if given evidence. My office door was
always open to students.
The occasional problem was two students handing in identical work. My
policy then was to grade one of them, then divide the grade by the
number of identical copies. When a full page of calculations was
identical, number by number, it was pretty hard to pretend both were
original.
And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
lol...why can I see a certain someone here making that same mistake?
--
Add xx to reply
cyclintom
2024-11-26 16:51:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along
the way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read
it for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
I should mention, having given failing grades for similar offenses, I
certainly would have reconsidered if given evidence. My office door was
always open to students.
The occasional problem was two students handing in identical work. My
policy then was to grade one of them, then divide the grade by the
number of identical copies. When a full page of calculations was
identical, number by number, it was pretty hard to pretend both were
original.
And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
lol...why can I see a certain someone here making that same mistake?
--
Add xx to reply
I assume that you're speaking of yourself since I appear to be the only programmer here and showed decisively that you know nothing about programming ang would me forced to copy the work of someone else to pass the requisit course. You have been shown for what you are.
Zen Cycle
2024-11-26 18:51:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along
the way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read
it for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
I should mention, having given failing grades for similar offenses, I
certainly would have reconsidered if given evidence. My office door was
always open to students.
The occasional problem was two students handing in identical work. My
policy then was to grade one of them, then divide the grade by the
number of identical copies. When a full page of calculations was
identical, number by number, it was pretty hard to pretend both were
original.
And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
lol...why can I see a certain someone here making that same mistake?
--
Add xx to reply
I assume that you're speaking of yourself since I appear to be the only programmer here
No, you aren't. plenty of others in this forum have done programming,
including me.
Post by cyclintom
and showed decisively that you know nothing about programming ang would me forced to copy the work of someone else to pass the requisit course.
So I should remind you that the program you allege that I couldn't
understand contained a description of the architecture that you were
unaware of, and when I challenged you on it, you couldn't answer the
question because you didn't actually understand the architecture, and
instead resorted to insults.

Why is that?

It's simple. You didn't write that program. You had copied it from the
original author and yourself only understood it controlled some LED
features.

so, Who was it that copies someone elses work and claims credit for it?
It wasn't me, sparky, that was you.
Post by cyclintom
You have been shown for what you are.
Yup, one of the many people in this forum that constantly prove you wrong.
--
Add xx to reply
cyclintom
2024-11-26 23:46:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along
the way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read
it for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
I should mention, having given failing grades for similar offenses, I
certainly would have reconsidered if given evidence. My office door was
always open to students.
The occasional problem was two students handing in identical work. My
policy then was to grade one of them, then divide the grade by the
number of identical copies. When a full page of calculations was
identical, number by number, it was pretty hard to pretend both were
original.
And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
lol...why can I see a certain someone here making that same mistake?
--
Add xx to reply
I assume that you're speaking of yourself since I appear to be the only programmer here
No, you aren't. plenty of others in this forum have done programming,
including me.
Post by cyclintom
and showed decisively that you know nothing about programming ang would me forced to copy the work of someone else to pass the requisit course.
So I should remind you that the program you allege that I couldn't
understand contained a description of the architecture that you were
unaware of, and when I challenged you on it, you couldn't answer the
question because you didn't actually understand the architecture, and
instead resorted to insults.
Why is that?
It's simple. You didn't write that program. You had copied it from the
original author and yourself only understood it controlled some LED
features.
so, Who was it that copies someone elses work and claims credit for it?
It wasn't me, sparky, that was you.
Post by cyclintom
You have been shown for what you are.
Yup, one of the many people in this forum that constantly prove you wrong.
--
Add xx to reply
For people that program in C a description of what is occurring is normal and you can't even understand that. And your programming is so good that you don't know that it wasn't describing the "archetecture" but what was occuring with THAT instruction. I'm sure that you can show yourself even more absurd with your next comment.
zen cycle
2024-11-27 00:57:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along
the way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read
it for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
I should mention, having given failing grades for similar offenses, I
certainly would have reconsidered if given evidence. My office door was
always open to students.
The occasional problem was two students handing in identical work. My
policy then was to grade one of them, then divide the grade by the
number of identical copies. When a full page of calculations was
identical, number by number, it was pretty hard to pretend both were
original.
And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
lol...why can I see a certain someone here making that same mistake?
--
Add xx to reply
I assume that you're speaking of yourself since I appear to be the only programmer here
No, you aren't. plenty of others in this forum have done programming,
including me.
Post by cyclintom
and showed decisively that you know nothing about programming ang would me forced to copy the work of someone else to pass the requisit course.
So I should remind you that the program you allege that I couldn't
understand contained a description of the architecture that you were
unaware of, and when I challenged you on it, you couldn't answer the
question because you didn't actually understand the architecture, and
instead resorted to insults.
Why is that?
It's simple. You didn't write that program. You had copied it from the
original author and yourself only understood it controlled some LED
features.
so, Who was it that copies someone elses work and claims credit for it?
It wasn't me, sparky, that was you.
Post by cyclintom
You have been shown for what you are.
Yup, one of the many people in this forum that constantly prove you wrong.
--
Add xx to reply
For people that program in C a description of what is occurring is normal and you can't even understand that.
No matter how many times you tell that lie, it will never become true. I
responded to your request about what the program was doing when you asked.
Post by cyclintom
And your programming is so good that you don't know that it wasn't describing the "archetecture" but what was occuring with THAT instruction.
The comments described the architecture, tommy. It listed the devices
used. This is how I knew the design used a peripheral A/D instead of the
one integrated into the microcontroller. It was a question you couldn't
answer, because you didn't really write the code. If you had written the
code, you would have remembered listing the devices used and would have
been able to ask the question about why the peripheral device was used
instead of the integrated device. You were so dumbfounded by my question
you even denied the devices were listed in the comments.
Post by cyclintom
I'm sure that you can show yourself even more absurd with your next comment.
No more than how you keep thinking your fooling anyone into believing
you can do more than change a battery in a remote.
Frank Krygowski
2024-11-26 20:13:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I assume that you're speaking of yourself since I appear to be the only programmer here ...
You are not the only programmer here, Tom.
--
- Frank Krygowski
cyclintom
2024-11-26 23:51:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Krygowski
I assume that you're speaking of yourself since I appear to be the only programmer here ...
You are not the only programmer here, Tom.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Are you claiming to be a programmer in C, C+, C++ or any of the other variations? Then why didn't you step in and help Flunky out? Programming is one of the simplest tasks that an engineer can do. The people who claim to be engineers here with the possible exception of you have NOT shown the ability to understand a program that only flashed two lights at a varible speed.
Frank Krygowski
2024-11-27 03:37:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Frank Krygowski
I assume that you're speaking of yourself since I appear to be the only programmer here ...
You are not the only programmer here, Tom.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Are you claiming to be a programmer in C, C+, C++ or any of the other variations?
Do you see such a claim? No. You seem to have pulled that idea out of
your usual orifice.

Those aren't the only languages or systems available for programming,
and I didn't even mention myself when I said "You are not the only
programmer here."
--
- Frank Krygowski
cyclintom
2024-11-27 21:23:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
Post by Frank Krygowski
I assume that you're speaking of yourself since I appear to be the only programmer here ...
You are not the only programmer here, Tom.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Are you claiming to be a programmer in C, C+, C++ or any of the other variations?
Do you see such a claim? No. You seem to have pulled that idea out of
your usual orifice.
Those aren't the only languages or systems available for programming,
and I didn't even mention myself when I said "You are not the only
programmer here."
--
- Frank Krygowski
So then, without the slightest knowledge of what you're talking about you claim that I'm not the only programmer here. You and Flunky really get along well. He szys he can program without the abolity to rezd a simple programe that only flashes a light. Is this the way you "taught" engineering?
Zen Cycle
2024-11-27 21:49:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
Post by Frank Krygowski
I assume that you're speaking of yourself since I appear to be the only programmer here ...
You are not the only programmer here, Tom.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Are you claiming to be a programmer in C, C+, C++ or any of the other variations?
Do you see such a claim? No. You seem to have pulled that idea out of
your usual orifice.
Those aren't the only languages or systems available for programming,
and I didn't even mention myself when I said "You are not the only
programmer here."
--
- Frank Krygowski
So then, without the slightest knowledge of what you're talking about you claim that I'm not the only programmer here.
You aren't.
Post by cyclintom
You and Flunky really get along well. He szys he can program without the abolity to rezd a simple programe that only flashes a light.
No matter how many times you tell that lie it will never become true. In
the meantime have you figured out how I was able to analyze your
architecture yet? (BTW I'll bet your compiler just loved your spelling
errors)
Post by cyclintom
Is this the way you "taught" engineering?
Beats the way you claim you did it.
--
Add xx to reply
Frank Krygowski
2024-11-28 03:51:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
So then, without the slightest knowledge of what you're talking about you claim that I'm not the only programmer here.
I _know_ you're not the only programmer here. I've done programming in
at least four different languages and/or systems. (Try programming a
Programmable Logic Controller using ladder diagrams. It's like
programming in Martian.)

I also _know_ there are others here besides me who are programmers. You
are absolutely not the only one, which is what I said.
--
- Frank Krygowski
AMuzi
2024-11-28 13:38:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
So then, without the slightest knowledge of what you're
talking about you claim that I'm not the only programmer
here.
I _know_ you're not the only programmer here. I've done
programming in at least four different languages and/or
systems. (Try programming a Programmable Logic Controller
using ladder diagrams. It's like programming in Martian.)
I also _know_ there are others here besides me who are
programmers. You are absolutely not the only one, which is
what I said.
+1

I did OK with BASIC for company inventory tracking software
but wrote payroll in Lotus and passed an audit two years
later. Small but not nothing.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Catrike Ryder
2024-11-28 14:17:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by AMuzi
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
So then, without the slightest knowledge of what you're
talking about you claim that I'm not the only programmer
here.
I _know_ you're not the only programmer here. I've done
programming in at least four different languages and/or
systems. (Try programming a Programmable Logic Controller
using ladder diagrams. It's like programming in Martian.)
I also _know_ there are others here besides me who are
programmers. You are absolutely not the only one, which is
what I said.
+1
I did OK with BASIC for company inventory tracking software
but wrote payroll in Lotus and passed an audit two years
later. Small but not nothing.
Back in the last century I made a pretty nice living writing Fortran,
C and C++. I'm still writing VBA, just for fun.

--
C'est bon
Soloman
Rolf Mantel
2024-11-28 09:02:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
lol...why can I see a certain someone here making that same mistake?
I assume that you're speaking of yourself since I appear to be the only programmer here.
Sure, you're the only "programmer" here. We others are "trained
programmers" (I'm a software architect).
cyclintom
2024-11-26 17:38:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along
the way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read it
for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
I should mention, having given failing grades for similar offenses, I
certainly would have reconsidered if given evidence. My office door was
always open to students.
The occasional problem was two students handing in identical work. My
policy then was to grade one of them, then divide the grade by the
number of identical copies. When a full page of calculations was
identical, number by number, it was pretty hard to pretend both were
original.
And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank, the subject is the national debt and the doubtless belt tightening to come. The end of next month, all of my bills including property taxes and DMV renewal will be paid off. I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing absolutely noyhing about them. You have a habit of speaking from positions of ignorance and I would suggest you correct that before posting your Jobst wannabe comments.

There are plenty of places where you input might be desireable but since you seem to be lacking any knowledge of finnces, almost entirely lacking from the Democrat mindset, the National Debt is not one of them.

Instead, we can listen to Flunky telling us that Janet Yellen was completely correct, depite her appollogizing to the nqation for being completely wrong and being complecit in running the National Debt up to n4early unmanagable levels. When finally faced with reality, Yellen relented whereas Flunky maintains his lies.
Frank Krygowski
2024-11-26 20:17:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?

I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
--
- Frank Krygowski
cyclintom
2024-11-26 23:53:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
--
- Frank Krygowski
You just implied that you're a programmer who was unwilling to help Flunky out of the hole he dug.
Frank Krygowski
2024-11-27 03:40:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
You just implied that you're a programmer who was unwilling to help Flunky out of the hole he dug.
Are you now implying that your crank fell off because of bad
programming, or what?

Damn, Tom, you're sounding more and more insane! Stick to one rant at a
time!
--
- Frank Krygowski
cyclintom
2024-11-27 00:02:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
--
- Frank Krygowski
The subject is the national debt which you plainly don't understand because you flunked first year economics which is a necessity for anyone ever hoping to lead a project. So that answers why you were fired as a plant engineer. You just have so many problems.
zen cycle
2024-11-27 04:59:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Krygowski
 I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA
crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing
absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
Of course he is! When was the last time you saw him admit he might have
done something wrong?
Post by Frank Krygowski
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
Jeff Liebermann
2024-11-27 17:13:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Nov 2024 23:59:15 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
 I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA
crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing
absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
Of course he is! When was the last time you saw him admit he might have
done something wrong?
I'm not sure if this does not qualify:

08/03/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cJi96AJ2A3k/m/JEyDC0TDBgAJ>
"I'll bet that there wasn't anything I didn't do wrong"
Post by zen cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
cyclintom
2024-11-27 21:24:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by zen cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA
crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing
absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
Of course he is! When was the last time you saw him admit he might have
done something wrong?
Post by Frank Krygowski
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
Shouldn't you be tuning up your friction shifters for your next race?
Zen Cycle
2024-11-27 21:50:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by zen cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA
crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing
absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
Of course he is! When was the last time you saw him admit he might have
done something wrong?
Post by Frank Krygowski
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
Shouldn't you be tuning up your friction shifters for your next race?
I haven't raced friction shifters since 1992.
Shouldn't you be figuring out how to attach a crank arm so that it
doesn't fall off?
--
Add xx to reply
Frank Krygowski
2024-11-28 03:58:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Shouldn't you be tuning up your friction shifters for your next race?
I haven't raced friction shifters since 1992.
Shouldn't you be figuring out how to attach a crank arm so that it
doesn't fall off?
Remember when Tom's handlebars were so loose they kept slipping? And his
seatpost? He seems to have some consistent problems.

I think Tom should use red Loctite on everything he installs on a bike.
And for carbon fiber parts, use epoxy. Then his bike's parts may stay
attached.
--
- Frank Krygowski
cyclintom
2024-11-28 17:20:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Shouldn't you be tuning up your friction shifters for your next race?
I haven't raced friction shifters since 1992.
Shouldn't you be figuring out how to attach a crank arm so that it
doesn't fall off?
Remember when Tom's handlebars were so loose they kept slipping? And his
seatpost? He seems to have some consistent problems.
I think Tom should use red Loctite on everything he installs on a bike.
And for carbon fiber parts, use epoxy. Then his bike's parts may stay
attached.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Why do you have a selective memory? My handlebars didn't "slip" They were a test of carbon fiber handlebars which showed me that carbon fiber is a poor material out of which to make normal mandlkebars as demonstrated by the fact that all of the modern carbon fiber bikes use one piece stem/handlebars to prevent that problem.

As for the seat post slipping, I was interrupted when installing the seat post and forgot to tighten it before testing the bike. That was the only occassion and it wouldn't happen to you because the sear post hasn't been out of your bike since you bought the bike preassembled.

You can easily tell the level of mechanical ability on this so-called "technical" group by the fact that I have offered to GIVE expensive new components to people here and none accepted because they don't know how to install them. Frank Krygowski being #1.
zen cycle
2024-11-29 01:07:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Shouldn't you be tuning up your friction shifters for your next race?
I haven't raced friction shifters since 1992.
Shouldn't you be figuring out how to attach a crank arm so that it
doesn't fall off?
Remember when Tom's handlebars were so loose they kept slipping? And his
seatpost? He seems to have some consistent problems.
I think Tom should use red Loctite on everything he installs on a bike.
And for carbon fiber parts, use epoxy. Then his bike's parts may stay
attached.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Why do you have a selective memory? My handlebars didn't "slip"
yiu wrote repeatedly that you were unable to prevent them from slipping,
and even made up some story about your local shop mechanic being unable
to keep them from slipping.
Post by cyclintom
They were a test of carbon fiber handlebars which showed me that carbon fiber is a poor material out of which to make normal mandlkebars as demonstrated by the fact that all of the modern carbon fiber bikes use one piece stem/handlebars to prevent that problem.
No, tommy, that isn't why they are making them out of one piece. The
fact that virtually all professional teams were using carbon bars and
stems before the one-piece designs became vogue is a clear indication of
how well the design worked when you didn't have an idiot like you for a
mechanic.
Post by cyclintom
As for the seat post slipping, I was interrupted when installing the seat post and forgot to tighten it before testing the bike.
So? you still had to post the issue in this forum and blame it on a bad
design
Post by cyclintom
That was the only occassion and it wouldn't happen to you because the sear post hasn't been out of your bike since you bought the bike preassembled.
You've had several seatpost issues
Post by cyclintom
You can easily tell the level of mechanical ability on this so-called "technical" group by the fact that I have offered to GIVE expensive new components to people here and none accepted because they don't know how to install them.
a) you've never offered to give anyone anything here.
2) even if you did, the reason no one would have taken it is that they
in fact know how to install such things, and they know what your tryng
to give them was second-hand shit you bought off ebay and it was likely
defective.
Post by cyclintom
Frank Krygowski being #1.
Hey Frank!
You're #1!
You're #1!
You're #1!
You're #1!
You're #1!
You're #1!
You're #1!
You're #1!
You're #1!
You're #1!
You're #1!
cyclintom
2024-11-28 16:58:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by zen cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA
crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing
absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
Of course he is! When was the last time you saw him admit he might have
done something wrong?
Post by Frank Krygowski
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
Shouldn't you be tuning up your friction shifters for your next race?
I haven't raced friction shifters since 1992.
Shouldn't you be figuring out how to attach a crank arm so that it
doesn't fall off?
--
Add xx to reply
I have since discovering that the failing arm was machined improperly. Something that you would never even consider.
Roger Merriman
2024-11-28 17:41:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by zen cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA
crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing
absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
Of course he is! When was the last time you saw him admit he might have
done something wrong?
Post by Frank Krygowski
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
Shouldn't you be tuning up your friction shifters for your next race?
I haven't raced friction shifters since 1992.
Shouldn't you be figuring out how to attach a crank arm so that it
doesn't fall off?
--
Add xx to reply
I have since discovering that the failing arm was machined improperly.
Something that you would never even consider.
In what way? I’ve had a crank arm get wobbly as it had worn out the drive
surfaces, but this was after decades of mucky gritty use, and it certainly
was on no danger of falling off!

Roger Merriman
cyclintom
2024-11-28 18:45:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by zen cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA
crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing
absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
Of course he is! When was the last time you saw him admit he might have
done something wrong?
Post by Frank Krygowski
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
Shouldn't you be tuning up your friction shifters for your next race?
I haven't raced friction shifters since 1992.
Shouldn't you be figuring out how to attach a crank arm so that it
doesn't fall off?
--
Add xx to reply
I have since discovering that the failing arm was machined improperly.
Something that you would never even consider.
In what way? I?ve had a crank arm get wobbly as it had worn out the drive
surfaces, but this was after decades of mucky gritty use, and it certainly
was on no danger of falling off!
Roger Merriman
Roger, the reason that FSA gives you an absolute torque limit isn't because you may break the steel shaft but becase to compensate for the crank arm machining limits. I bought a "like new" crankset cheap because the nonedrive side was out of tolerance. That never occurred to me because I never had a mechanism that would come loose because it was tightened too much. I have always treated torque limits as the possibility of breaking a part. Or causing a distortion in a long component such as an engine head.
zen cycle
2024-11-29 01:11:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by cyclintom
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by zen cycle
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6 to replace the FSA
crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing
absolutely noyhing about them.
Wait: You told us your crank fell off. Are you now saying your
installation procedure had nothing to do with that?
Of course he is! When was the last time you saw him admit he might have
done something wrong?
Post by Frank Krygowski
I don't remember saying much beyond "so many problems!" But I think most
people here think parts falling off indicates bad mechanical skills.
Shouldn't you be tuning up your friction shifters for your next race?
I haven't raced friction shifters since 1992.
Shouldn't you be figuring out how to attach a crank arm so that it
doesn't fall off?
--
Add xx to reply
I have since discovering that the failing arm was machined improperly.
Something that you would never even consider.
In what way? I?ve had a crank arm get wobbly as it had worn out the drive
surfaces, but this was after decades of mucky gritty use, and it certainly
was on no danger of falling off!
Roger Merriman
Roger, the reason that FSA gives you an absolute torque limit isn't because you may break the steel shaft but becase to compensate for the crank arm machining limits.
lol...yeah...that's why.
Post by cyclintom
I bought a "like new" crankset cheap because the nonedrive side was out of tolerance.
So, as usual, you bought used ebay shit, and it failed due to an
inherent design flaw...got it.
Post by cyclintom
That never occurred to me because I never had a mechanism that would come loose because it was tightened too much.
It came loose because you fucked up. Period.
Jeff Liebermann
2024-11-28 20:52:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
I have since discovering that the failing arm was machined improperly. Something that you would never even consider.
Tom. You lie (again). There is no way your "failing" crank arm would
have fallen off without you noticing the loose crank. The crank would
initially have wiggled around on the spines and made ominous noises.
Eventually, the crank would have leaned inward and started banging
against the chain stays. The crank would have remained attached to
the bottom bracket on the right side by 4 screws and on the left side
by either a center bolt, a compression clamp, or both. I also have
problems visualizing how the high end expensive groupos you claim to
be using could have had a machining error larger than a few
thousandths.

What I find entertaining is why you repeatedly refer to this crank
falling off incident, which is obviously fake, even to a casual
observer. The reason is simple. Your goal in RBT to establish
yourself as an expert in literally everything. In order to do that,
you must receive credit for all your amazing facts and information. No
corroboration is required but the facts and info must come from you as
the sole source of knowledge. You can't tolerate having someone else
take any credit for your amazing facts. Even recycling advice from
known authorities, is not allowed. Your problem is that you can't be
contradicted, criticized or proven incorrect. Your solution is to
repeat your amazing facts, bogus information, recycled right rubbish
from dubious source, and outright lies manufactured for the occasion,
over and over and over again, in the vain hope that someone will
believe them. The world doesn't work that way. Most people are
sufficiently experienced with critical thinking to recognize your lies
the first time. Repetition only makes it worse.

Have a nice Thanksgiving. However, if you continue to drink booze,
there's nothing anyone can do to prevent you have having a lousy
Thanksgiving.
--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Frank Krygowski
2024-11-29 05:21:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
I have since discovering that the failing arm was machined improperly.
I call bullshit. You can prove me wrong by telling us exactly what
feature of the crank was machined improperly, tell us what specific
dimensions were wrong, and post a photo proving what you claim.

Until you do that (which you won't), absolutely everyone here is going
to continue believing that you screwed up yet again, as usual. And they
will be correct.

It astonishes me that a person can be such a terrible mechanic as to
have parts literally falling off as he rides. That would make a funny
cartoon. And indeed, you're like a cartoon character.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Tom Kunich
2024-12-07 21:32:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
I have since discovering that the failing arm was machined improperly.
I call bullshit. You can prove me wrong by telling us exactly what
feature of the crank was machined improperly, tell us what specific
dimensions were wrong, and post a photo proving what you claim.
Until you do that (which you won't), absolutely everyone here is going
to continue believing that you screwed up yet again, as usual. And they
will be correct.
It astonishes me that a person can be such a terrible mechanic as to
have parts literally falling off as he rides. That would make a funny
cartoon. And indeed, you're like a cartoon character.
More clown claims from you? If you don't know anything about an FSA carbon
hollow arm 30 mm shaft why do you expect me to explain it to you. Do you
usually need your hand held to understand mechanical engineering?
Frank Krygowski
2024-12-08 03:52:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by cyclintom
I have since discovering that the failing arm was machined improperly.
I call bullshit. You can prove me wrong by telling us exactly what
feature of the crank was machined improperly, tell us what specific
dimensions were wrong, and post a photo proving what you claim.
Until you do that (which you won't), absolutely everyone here is going
to continue believing that you screwed up yet again, as usual. And they
will be correct.
It astonishes me that a person can be such a terrible mechanic as to
have parts literally falling off as he rides. That would make a funny
cartoon. And indeed, you're like a cartoon character.
More clown claims from you? If you don't know anything about an FSA carbon
hollow arm 30 mm shaft why do you expect me to explain it to you.
I know crank arms are not supposed to fall off, and that they don't do
that for competent mechanics! Similarly, handlebars are not supposed to
slip, seatposts are not supposed to slip, derailleurs are not supposed
to need constant readjustment, etc. etc. etc.

Of all those posting here, you seem to be the only person experiencing
such problems. You've volunteered lots of evidence that _you_ are the
one who doesn't know anything!
--
- Frank Krygowski
Zen Cycle
2024-11-27 12:48:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along
the way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read it
for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
I should mention, having given failing grades for similar offenses, I
certainly would have reconsidered if given evidence. My office door was
always open to students.
The occasional problem was two students handing in identical work. My
policy then was to grade one of them, then divide the grade by the
number of identical copies. When a full page of calculations was
identical, number by number, it was pretty hard to pretend both were
original.
And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank, the subject is the national debt and the doubtless belt tightening to come. The end of next month, all of my bills including property taxes and DMV renewal will be paid off. I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6
No, you didn't, you bought a used one off ebay like you always do.
Post by cyclintom
to replace the FSA crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing absolutely noyhing about them.
A properly installed crank arm doesn't fall off, even of the most cheap
chinese quality. You fucked up, because you're a fuck -up.
Post by cyclintom
You have a habit of speaking from positions of ignorance and I would suggest you correct that before posting your Jobst wannabe comments.
and more irony meters explode all over the internet.
Post by cyclintom
There are plenty of places where you input might be desireable but since you seem to be lacking any knowledge of finnces, almost entirely lacking from the Democrat mindset, the National Debt is not one of them.
Instead, we can listen to Flunky telling us that Janet Yellen was completely correct
I did? Where did I write that?
Post by cyclintom
depite her appollogizing to the nqation for being completely wrong and being complecit in running the National Debt up to n4early unmanagable levels. When finally faced with reality, Yellen relented whereas Flunky maintains his lies.
oh, you mean lies like going from living off social security to making
$12K a month off your investments?

When it comes to lies in this forum, you're the king, tommy.
--
Add xx to reply
cyclintom
2024-11-28 18:34:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along
the way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read it
for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
I should mention, having given failing grades for similar offenses, I
certainly would have reconsidered if given evidence. My office door was
always open to students.
The occasional problem was two students handing in identical work. My
policy then was to grade one of them, then divide the grade by the
number of identical copies. When a full page of calculations was
identical, number by number, it was pretty hard to pretend both were
original.
And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank, the subject is the national debt and the doubtless belt tightening to come. The end of next month, all of my bills including property taxes and DMV renewal will be paid off. I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6
No, you didn't, you bought a used one off ebay like you always do.
Post by cyclintom
to replace the FSA crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing absolutely noyhing about them.
A properly installed crank arm doesn't fall off, even of the most cheap
chinese quality. You fucked up, because you're a fuck -up.
Post by cyclintom
You have a habit of speaking from positions of ignorance and I would suggest you correct that before posting your Jobst wannabe comments.
and more irony meters explode all over the internet.
Post by cyclintom
There are plenty of places where you input might be desireable but since you seem to be lacking any knowledge of finnces, almost entirely lacking from the Democrat mindset, the National Debt is not one of them.
Instead, we can listen to Flunky telling us that Janet Yellen was completely correct
I did? Where did I write that?
Post by cyclintom
depite her appollogizing to the nqation for being completely wrong and being complecit in running the National Debt up to n4early unmanagable levels. When finally faced with reality, Yellen relented whereas Flunky maintains his lies.
oh, you mean lies like going from living off social security to making
$12K a month off your investments?
When it comes to lies in this forum, you're the king, tommy.
--
Add xx to reply
I was wondering why FSA said not to overtighten it even if the torque was wrong, you moron. When you are completely without even a clue maybe you should stop advertising it.
zen cycle
2024-11-29 01:15:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by Frank Krygowski
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along
the way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
ugh...I can understand why that happened, but did he appeal and show
his original notes and explain he just had someone else proof read it
for grammar?
Yes he still had his notes.
Hopefully he got it reviewed and passed.
I should mention, having given failing grades for similar offenses, I
certainly would have reconsidered if given evidence. My office door was
always open to students.
The occasional problem was two students handing in identical work. My
policy then was to grade one of them, then divide the grade by the
number of identical copies. When a full page of calculations was
identical, number by number, it was pretty hard to pretend both were
original.
And in one memorable case, the same was true of a computer programming
assignment, where the kid who copied actually left the originator's name
somewhere within the code.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank, the subject is the national debt and the doubtless belt tightening to come. The end of next month, all of my bills including property taxes and DMV renewal will be paid off. I now have bought a new Shimano Ultrgra crankset6
No, you didn't, you bought a used one off ebay like you always do.
Post by cyclintom
to replace the FSA crqnk you accused me of improper instalation despite your knowing absolutely noyhing about them.
A properly installed crank arm doesn't fall off, even of the most cheap
chinese quality. You fucked up, because you're a fuck -up.
Post by cyclintom
You have a habit of speaking from positions of ignorance and I would suggest you correct that before posting your Jobst wannabe comments.
and more irony meters explode all over the internet.
Post by cyclintom
There are plenty of places where you input might be desireable but since you seem to be lacking any knowledge of finnces, almost entirely lacking from the Democrat mindset, the National Debt is not one of them.
Instead, we can listen to Flunky telling us that Janet Yellen was completely correct
I did? Where did I write that?
Post by cyclintom
depite her appollogizing to the nqation for being completely wrong and being complecit in running the National Debt up to n4early unmanagable levels. When finally faced with reality, Yellen relented whereas Flunky maintains his lies.
oh, you mean lies like going from living off social security to making
$12K a month off your investments?
When it comes to lies in this forum, you're the king, tommy.
--
Add xx to reply
I was wondering why FSA said not to overtighten it even if the torque was wrong, you moron. When you are completely without even a clue maybe you should stop advertising it.
You mean like failing to properly attach a crank arm and then posting
that it fell off mid ride?
Frank Krygowski
2024-11-25 15:39:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by AMuzi
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from his
handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and grammar along the
way. He was graded F with the comment, "This is not your work."
I've given Fs in similar circumstances, but with pages of calculations
instead of written work.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Catrike Ryder
2024-11-25 16:21:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by John B.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 06:57:21 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no
one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay
it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please
provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a
member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
   Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes
Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-
the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to
reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-
present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
I was replying to Mr. Andrew's post which wasn't
attributed either...
(:-)
Andrew has a discernible writing style.
You have a discernible writing style.
It's pretty obvious when Andrew is writing primary thought,
as are you.
Andrews post was consistent with his primary thought style.
Yours wasn't.
Thank you.
I once typed a college paper for my youngest brother from
his handwritten draft. I cleaned up the punctuation and
grammar along the way. He was graded F with the comment,
"This is not your work."
Good Copy Editors make lots of money.

--
C'est bon
Soloman
cyclintom
2024-11-26 16:31:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by John B.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 06:57:21 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I was replying to Mr. Andrew's post which wasn't attributed either...
(:-)
Andrew has a discernible writing style.
You have a discernible writing style.
It's pretty obvious when Andrew is writing primary thought, as are you.
Andrews post was consistent with his primary thought style.
Yours wasn't.
--
Add xx to reply
You don't have any thoughts. All you have is lie after lie after lie.
Zen Cycle
2024-11-26 18:53:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by John B.
On Mon, 25 Nov 2024 06:57:21 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I was replying to Mr. Andrew's post which wasn't attributed either...
(:-)
Andrew has a discernible writing style.
You have a discernible writing style.
It's pretty obvious when Andrew is writing primary thought, as are you.
Andrews post was consistent with his primary thought style.
Yours wasn't.
--
Add xx to reply
You don't have any thoughts. All you have is lie after lie after lie.
Considering Andrew thanked me for that comment, I'll consider your
opinion to be about as valuable as your claims of wealth.
--
Add xx to reply
AMuzi
2024-11-25 13:37:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one
cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it
off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide
some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member
of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
  Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti
and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite
the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
cyclintom
2024-11-25 18:59:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one
cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it
off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide
some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member
of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti
and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite
the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh backed by the Soviet Union were pretty much unbeatable because South Vietnam didn't care what government they were under as long as they had peace. Because of this, JFK was advised to replace Eisenhower's military advisors with actual troops by the CIA. When JFK discovered that he had been lied to he decided to pull out and the CIA assassinated him. Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA sniper and there was no possibility of Jack Ruby being armed in a police station where they were moving Oswald. Ruby would not have then hung himself in his cell.

Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand the war. Nixon knew all was lost but he used B52's to obtain a treaty to save face. The CIA was working for the military-industrial complex and not for America ever since. They got even with Nixon for ending a war that was making the elite richer still.
AMuzi
2024-11-25 19:11:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one
cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it
off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide
some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member
of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti
and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite
the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh backed by the Soviet Union were pretty much unbeatable because South Vietnam didn't care what government they were under as long as they had peace. Because of this, JFK was advised to replace Eisenhower's military advisors with actual troops by the CIA. When JFK discovered that he had been lied to he decided to pull out and the CIA assassinated him. Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA sniper and there was no possibility of Jack Ruby being armed in a police station where they were moving Oswald. Ruby would not have then hung himself in his cell.
Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand the war. Nixon knew all was lost but he used B52's to obtain a treaty to save face. The CIA was working for the military-industrial complex and not for America ever since. They got even with Nixon for ending a war that was making the elite richer still.
That's all highly revisionist and doesn't match actual
history very well.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
cyclintom
2024-11-25 19:59:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by AMuzi
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one
cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member
of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti
and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite
the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh backed by the Soviet Union were pretty much unbeatable because South Vietnam didn't care what government they were under as long as they had peace. Because of this, JFK was advised to replace Eisenhower's military advisors with actual troops by the CIA. When JFK discovered that he had been lied to he decided to pull out and the CIA assassinated him. Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA sniper and there was no possibility of Jack Ruby being armed in a police station where they were moving Oswald. Ruby would not have then hung himself in his cell.
Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand the war. Nixon knew all was lost but he used B52's to obtain a treaty to save face. The CIA was working for the military-industrial complex and not for America ever since. They got even with Nixon for ending a war that was making the elite richer still.
That's all highly revisionist and doesn't match actual
history very well.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Unfortunately it is also accurate. HOW was an armed Jack Rudy on the staircase? Hardly revisionist considering the bullshit report that contained so many lies that no one took it seriously
John B.
2024-11-26 01:17:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh backed by the Soviet Union were pretty much unbeatable because South Vietnam didn't care what government they were under as long as they had peace. Because of this, JFK was advised to replace Eisenhower's military advisors with actual troops by the CIA. When JFK discovered that he had been lied to he decided to pull out and the CIA assassinated him. Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA sniper and there was no possibility of Jack Ruby being armed in a police station where they were moving Oswald. Ruby would not have then hung himself in his cell.
Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand the war. Nixon knew all was lost but he used B52's to obtain a treaty to save face. The CIA was working for the military-industrial complex and not for America ever since. They got even with Nixon for ending a war that was making the elite richer still.
That's all highly revisionist and doesn't match actual
history very well.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Unfortunately it is also accurate. HOW was an armed Jack Rudy on the staircase? Hardly revisionist considering the bullshit report that contained so many lies that no one took it seriously
Actually Jack Rudy didn't shoot Oswald. It was some other bloke.
--
Cheers,

John B.
Zen Cycle
2024-11-25 20:52:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one
cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it
off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide
some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member
of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
  Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti
and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite
the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh backed
by the Soviet Union were pretty much unbeatable because South Vietnam
didn't care what government they were under as long as they had peace.
Because of this, JFK was advised to replace Eisenhower's military
advisors with actual troops by the CIA. When JFK discovered that he
had been lied to he decided to pull out and the CIA assassinated him.
Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA sniper and there was no possibility of
Jack Ruby being armed in a police station where they were moving
Oswald. Ruby would not have then hung himself in his cell.
Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand the war. Nixon
knew all was lost but he used B52's to obtain a treaty to save face.
The CIA was working for the military-industrial complex and not for
America ever since. They got even with Nixon for ending a war that was
making the elite richer still.
That's all highly revisionist and doesn't match actual history very well.
That was incredibly polite and charitable of you, Andrew
--
Add xx to reply
AMuzi
2024-11-25 21:10:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one
cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to
pay it
off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please
provide
some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet
with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member
of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
  Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years
after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti
and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite
the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-
present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players
and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho
Chi Minh backed by the Soviet Union were pretty much
unbeatable because South Vietnam didn't care what
government they were under as long as they had peace.
Because of this, JFK was advised to replace Eisenhower's
military advisors with actual troops by the CIA. When JFK
discovered that he had been lied to he decided to pull
out and the CIA assassinated him. Lee Harvey Oswald was a
CIA sniper and there was no possibility of Jack Ruby
being armed in a police station where they were moving
Oswald. Ruby would not have then hung himself in his cell.
Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand the
war. Nixon knew all was lost but he used B52's to obtain
a treaty to save face. The CIA was working for the
military-industrial complex and not for America ever
since. They got even with Nixon for ending a war that was
making the elite richer still.
That's all highly revisionist and doesn't match actual
history very well.
That was incredibly polite and charitable of you, Andrew
The wealth of tar babies in that rant would just go on and
on so I didn't.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Zen Cycle
2024-11-25 21:18:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
  Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945- present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh
backed by the Soviet Union were pretty much unbeatable because South
Vietnam didn't care what government they were under as long as they
had peace. Because of this, JFK was advised to replace Eisenhower's
military advisors with actual troops by the CIA. When JFK discovered
that he had been lied to he decided to pull out and the CIA
assassinated him. Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA sniper and there was
no possibility of Jack Ruby being armed in a police station where
they were moving Oswald. Ruby would not have then hung himself in
his cell.
Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand the war. Nixon
knew all was lost but he used B52's to obtain a treaty to save face.
The CIA was working for the military-industrial complex and not for
America ever since. They got even with Nixon for ending a war that
was making the elite richer still.
That's all highly revisionist and doesn't match actual history very well.
That was incredibly polite and charitable of you, Andrew
The wealth of tar babies in that rant would just go on and on so I didn't.
lol...I've never heard that idiomatic use of "tar barbie" before. Is
that a Wisconsin thing?
--
Add xx to reply
AMuzi
2024-11-25 21:19:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by AMuzi
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because
no one
cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the
same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to
pay it
off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large
sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please
provide
some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet
with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing
French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a
member
of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil
rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
  Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years
after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes
Patti
and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his
men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-
minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to
reunite
the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945- present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in
'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA
players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho
Chi Minh backed by the Soviet Union were pretty much
unbeatable because South Vietnam didn't care what
government they were under as long as they had peace.
Because of this, JFK was advised to replace
Eisenhower's military advisors with actual troops by
the CIA. When JFK discovered that he had been lied to
he decided to pull out and the CIA assassinated him.
Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA sniper and there was no
possibility of Jack Ruby being armed in a police
station where they were moving Oswald. Ruby would not
have then hung himself in his cell.
Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand
the war. Nixon knew all was lost but he used B52's to
obtain a treaty to save face. The CIA was working for
the military-industrial complex and not for America
ever since. They got even with Nixon for ending a war
that was making the elite richer still.
That's all highly revisionist and doesn't match actual
history very well.
That was incredibly polite and charitable of you, Andrew
The wealth of tar babies in that rant would just go on and
on so I didn't.
lol...I've never heard that idiomatic use of "tar barbie"
before. Is that a Wisconsin thing?
I don't think so but it does make my point very clear.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Zen Cycle
2024-11-25 21:29:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by AMuzi
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one
cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it
off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
  Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi- minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ History_of_Vietnam_(1945- present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh
backed by the Soviet Union were pretty much unbeatable because
South Vietnam didn't care what government they were under as long
as they had peace. Because of this, JFK was advised to replace
Eisenhower's military advisors with actual troops by the CIA. When
JFK discovered that he had been lied to he decided to pull out and
the CIA assassinated him. Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA sniper and
there was no possibility of Jack Ruby being armed in a police
station where they were moving Oswald. Ruby would not have then
hung himself in his cell.
Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand the war.
Nixon knew all was lost but he used B52's to obtain a treaty to
save face. The CIA was working for the military-industrial complex
and not for America ever since. They got even with Nixon for
ending a war that was making the elite richer still.
That's all highly revisionist and doesn't match actual history very well.
That was incredibly polite and charitable of you, Andrew
The wealth of tar babies in that rant would just go on and on so I didn't.
lol...I've never heard that idiomatic use of "tar barbie" before. Is
that a Wisconsin thing?
I don't think so but it does make my point very clear.
I was familiar with the general gist of the Br'er Rabbit tale, but the
glue-trap analogy was new to me - and yes, it makes the point clear.
--
Add xx to reply
Frank Krygowski
2024-11-25 21:48:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
  Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945- present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh
backed by the Soviet Union were pretty much unbeatable because
South Vietnam didn't care what government they were under as long
as they had peace. Because of this, JFK was advised to replace
Eisenhower's military advisors with actual troops by the CIA. When
JFK discovered that he had been lied to he decided to pull out and
the CIA assassinated him. Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA sniper and
there was no possibility of Jack Ruby being armed in a police
station where they were moving Oswald. Ruby would not have then
hung himself in his cell.
Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand the war. Nixon
knew all was lost but he used B52's to obtain a treaty to save
face. The CIA was working for the military-industrial complex and
not for America ever since. They got even with Nixon for ending a
war that was making the elite richer still.
That's all highly revisionist and doesn't match actual history very well.
That was incredibly polite and charitable of you, Andrew
The wealth of tar babies in that rant would just go on and on so I didn't.
lol...I've never heard that idiomatic use of "tar barbie" before. Is
that a Wisconsin thing?
Straight out of Uncle Remus, and poetically apt. I need to keep it in mind.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Roger Merriman
2024-11-25 23:51:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by cyclintom
Post by AMuzi
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 20:02:21 -0600, AMuzi
Post by AMuzi
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one
cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II.
So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can use
extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have
been spending money like it was water. The CIA for
instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA.
Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho
Chi Minh at Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French
Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member
of the
Groupe des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese
Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights
of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western
powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
  Citing the principle of self-determination outlined
before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French
colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent
government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to
allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and
United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain
consideration at
Versailles,
That's from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by AMuzi
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after
the die was cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti
and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of
communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to
this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The
OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed
Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-
met-with-the-oss-agent-archimedes-patti/415/5730
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country
temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite
the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/
History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United
Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the
Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam
therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of
Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john,
even in usenet.
And nothing quoted or cited implicates the CIA in 'starting
the Viet Nam war' which, considering various national
movements, the French, Japanese, Chinese and USA players and
many allies might best be written 'wars'.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
It was very well known that the communist forces of Ho Chi Minh backed
by the Soviet Union were pretty much unbeatable because South Vietnam
didn't care what government they were under as long as they had peace.
Because of this, JFK was advised to replace Eisenhower's military
advisors with actual troops by the CIA. When JFK discovered that he
had been lied to he decided to pull out and the CIA assassinated him.
Lee Harvey Oswald was a CIA sniper and there was no possibility of
Jack Ruby being armed in a police station where they were moving
Oswald. Ruby would not have then hung himself in his cell.
Johnson was not very smart but was willing to expand the war. Nixon
knew all was lost but he used B52's to obtain a treaty to save face.
The CIA was working for the military-industrial complex and not for
America ever since. They got even with Nixon for ending a war that was
making the elite richer still.
That's all highly revisionist and doesn't match actual history very well.
That was incredibly polite and charitable of you, Andrew
He’s quite the gentleman really, ie one can argue or disagree as I think we
do on various things, but he is nothing if not polite number of folks could
take note of this!

Roger Merriman
Tom Kunich
2024-12-03 16:03:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about
it. Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was
after WW II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it
off, he can use extraordinary means by closing down large sections
of government that have been spending money like it was water. The
CIA for instance used to be an organization that gathered
intelligence that showed threats to the USA. Then it became captured
by the Military-Industrial complex and started every war since
Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho Chi Minh at
Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the Groupe
des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after the die was
cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-the-oss-agent-
archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I grow weary of people who know nothing finding out about the world
through wikipedia and pretending then to know something. John
unfortunately does this a great deal. This is as bad as Liebermann telling
us all about Cull Canyom because he had managed to find it on Google Earth.
Frank Krygowski
2024-12-03 16:12:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tom Kunich
I grow weary of people who know nothing finding out about the world
through wikipedia and pretending then to know something.
Tom, their tactic is far better than yours.

You pull imaginary facts out of your fantasies using your famously
faulty memory, then insult those who use legitimate resources to yet
again prove you wrong.

You should notice that you almost never have anyone believing your
spewings. You repeatedly have people pointing out your mistakes, whether
they do it diplomatically or not.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Zen Cycle
2024-12-03 16:41:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about
it. Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was
after WW II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it
off, he can use extraordinary means by closing down large sections
of government that have been spending money like it was water. The
CIA for instance used to be an organization that gathered
intelligence that showed threats to the USA. Then it became captured
by the Military-Industrial complex and started every war since
Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho Chi Minh at
Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the Groupe
des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after the die was
cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-the-oss-agent-
archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I grow weary of people who know nothing finding out about the world
through wikipedia and pretending then to know something. John
unfortunately does this a great deal. This is as bad as Liebermann telling
us all about Cull Canyom because he had managed to find it on Google Earth.
Where they find out about it is irrelevant, as long as they can back it
up with a reference, and even better when they can rationally discuss
and give a defensible position.

John may not have given an attribution, but at least he wasn't pulling
weird "facts" out of his ass.
--
Add xx to reply
Jeff Liebermann
2024-12-03 18:57:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Tom Kunich
I grow weary of people who know nothing finding out about the world
through wikipedia and pretending then to know something. John
unfortunately does this a great deal. This is as bad as Liebermann telling
us all about Cull Canyom because he had managed to find it on Google Earth.
Tom, it's not as bad as your spelling. A spelling checker would solve
that problem. It mostly worked for me where my spelling is as bad or
worse than yours. However, you haven't even tried to use a spelling
checker. I've mentioned your spelling problem several times but
you've consistently ignored the problem. I'm now wondering if
something is preventing you from using a spelling checker. Do you
have some kind of vision problem that makes reading an LCD screen
difficult?
Post by Zen Cycle
Where they find out about it is irrelevant, as long as they can back it
up with a reference, and even better when they can rationally discuss
and give a defensible position.
That's how I do it. First party information is generally useless.
That's where someone proclaims that something is true without any
substantiation, corroboration or sources. Second party information is
where someone else was involved in whatever information is being
provided. However, it's only a single point of agreement and is
easily faked by echo chambers, true believers and party line
followers. Third party, where someone who is NOT involved in the
generation of the original information, does some research on the
topic, and usually provides a large number of references and links to
research on the topic.

I often go a step further and try to track down the original sources.
It's quite common to have the press or those with a political agenda,
misquote (or butcher) the original into something that was not
intended.
Post by Zen Cycle
John may not have given an attribution, but at least he wasn't pulling
weird "facts" out of his ass.
I'm a little irritated when someone cut-n-pastes some information,
quotes the content verbatim, but fails to provide a link to where the
content was found. If you know the source, please spend a few extra
milliseconds to include it with cut-n-paste content.
--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
cyclintom
2024-12-08 16:28:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about
it. Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was
after WW II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it
off, he can use extraordinary means by closing down large sections
of government that have been spending money like it was water. The
CIA for instance used to be an organization that gathered
intelligence that showed threats to the USA. Then it became captured
by the Military-Industrial complex and started every war since
Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho Chi Minh at
Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the Groupe
des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after the die was
cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-the-oss-agent-
archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I grow weary of people who know nothing finding out about the world
through wikipedia and pretending then to know something. John
unfortunately does this a great deal. This is as bad as Liebermann telling
us all about Cull Canyom because he had managed to find it on Google Earth.
Where they find out about it is irrelevant, as long as they can back it
up with a reference, and even better when they can rationally discuss
and give a defensible position.
John may not have given an attribution, but at least he wasn't pulling
weird "facts" out of his ass.
We already know that you are a thief of your employers money and that is why you will not use youe own name of that of your employer

Anythinjg you have to say is oompletely irrelevant because you actually know nothing at all about anything. You most certainly don't know your own job because you take credit for the work of others.
John B.
2024-12-04 03:00:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 16:03:56 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about
it. Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was
after WW II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it
off, he can use extraordinary means by closing down large sections
of government that have been spending money like it was water. The
CIA for instance used to be an organization that gathered
intelligence that showed threats to the USA. Then it became captured
by the Military-Industrial complex and started every war since
Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
Woodrow Wilson, a flagrant racist, refused to meet with Ho Chi Minh at
Versailles in 1919 about decolonizing French Indochina.
Are you sure of your data?
I ask as in 1919 Ho was a 29 year old "no body", a member of the Groupe
des Patriotes Annamites (The Group of Vietnamese Patriots) and,
The group petitioned for recognition of the civil rights of the
Vietnamese people in French Indochina to the Western powers at the
Versailles peace talks, but they were ignored.
Citing the principle of self-determination outlined before the peace
accords, they requested the allied powers to end French colonial rule
of Vietnam and ensure the formation of an independent government.
Before the conference, the group sent their letter to allied leaders,
including French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau and United States
President Woodrow Wilson. They were unable to obtain consideration at
Versailles,
That's from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh#Political_education_in_France
Post by John B.
The CIA was formed to replace OSS in 1947, 28 years after the die was
cast.
In April 1945, he met with the OSS agent Archimedes Patti and offered
to provide intelligence, asking only for "a line of communication"
between his Viet Minh and the Allies. The OSS agreed to this and later
sent a military team of OSS members to train his men.The OSS team
arrived in Vietnam on or about May 1945 and departed Vietnam in
September 1945.
That's from
https://historydraft.com/story/ho-chi-minh/ho-met-with-the-oss-agent-
archimedes-patti/415/5730
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
The Geneva Accords in 1954 partitioned the country temporarily in two
with a promise of democratic elections in 1956 to reunite the country.
https://dbpedia.org/page/History_of_Vietnam_(1945%E2%80%93present)
Post by John B.
The United States and South Vietnam insisted on United Nations
supervision of any election to prevent fraud, which the Soviet Union
and North Vietnam refused. North and South Vietnam therefore remained
divided until the Vietnam War ended with the Fall of Saigon in 1975.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Vietnam_(1945-present)
It's poor form to cut-n-paste without attribution, john, even in usenet.
I grow weary of people who know nothing finding out about the world
through wikipedia and pretending then to know something. John
unfortunately does this a great deal. This is as bad as Liebermann telling
us all about Cull Canyom because he had managed to find it on Google Earth.
Well "we" grow weary of a bloke who makes things up, tells lies, and
so obviously doesn't have a clue of what he is talking about.
--
Cheers,

John B.
Tom Kunich
2024-12-02 22:27:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.

But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.

The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.

Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.

The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".

There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.

Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
Shadow
2024-12-02 22:40:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
You have so many things right but so many absolutely wrong
that I wonder if you even question your sources.
Your brain must act like blotting paper.
LOL
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Google Fuchsia - 2021
AMuzi
2024-12-02 22:45:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
You have so many things right but so many absolutely wrong
that I wonder if you even question your sources.
Your brain must act like blotting paper.
LOL
[]'s
If not adult diapers.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Zen Cycle
2024-12-02 22:59:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
You have so many things right but so many absolutely wrong
that I wonder if you even question your sources.
No need to wonder. If he isn't making it up he gets it from places like
OANN.
Post by Shadow
Your brain must act like blotting paper.
LOL
[]'s
--
Add xx to reply
John B.
2024-12-03 02:04:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
Hey Tommy! Jack Ruby died of a pulmonary embolism on January 3, 1967,
at Parkland Hospital,

His conviction had been overturned and he had been granted a re-trial.
--
Cheers,

John B.
zen cycle
2024-12-03 10:46:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John B.
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
Hey Tommy! Jack Ruby died of a pulmonary embolism on January 3, 1967,
at Parkland Hospital,
His conviction had been overturned and he had been granted a re-trial.
You mean tommy lied about something?

The single arbiter of all that is right, pure, and true in forum forum
has told a mis-truth?!?!?!

SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!
John B.
2024-12-03 11:28:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 05:46:33 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
Hey Tommy! Jack Ruby died of a pulmonary embolism on January 3, 1967,
at Parkland Hospital,
His conviction had been overturned and he had been granted a re-trial.
You mean tommy lied about something?
The single arbiter of all that is right, pure, and true in forum forum
has told a mis-truth?!?!?!
SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!
I truly believe that Tommy is either one of the more stupid people to
inhabit the world or is a psychopathic liar.
--
Cheers,

John B.
zen cycle
2024-12-03 11:46:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John B.
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 05:46:33 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
Hey Tommy! Jack Ruby died of a pulmonary embolism on January 3, 1967,
at Parkland Hospital,
His conviction had been overturned and he had been granted a re-trial.
You mean tommy lied about something?
The single arbiter of all that is right, pure, and true in forum forum
has told a mis-truth?!?!?!
SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!
I truly believe that Tommy is either one of the more stupid people to
inhabit the world or is a psychopathic liar.
It's both.

I'm still waiting for him to explain how he went from living on social
security in 2013 to making $12000 a month off his investments without
having an income source _other_ than social security.

Then there was that tall tale of how he was a "senior business
manager/cosultant" or some other such horseshit while allegedly saving
the world by designing emergency-room medical electronics (but never had
to deal with the FDA).

The list goes on, and on....Wait, how did Jack Ruby die again?

lol...
Jeff Liebermann
2024-12-03 20:05:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 06:46:35 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
The list goes on, and on....Wait, how did Jack Ruby die again?
<https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jack-Ruby>
"Before a new trial could be held, however, Ruby died from a pulmonary
embolism shortly after being diagnosed with cancer."
--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Zen Cycle
2024-12-03 20:21:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 06:46:35 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
The list goes on, and on....Wait, how did Jack Ruby die again?
<https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jack-Ruby>
"Before a new trial could be held, however, Ruby died from a pulmonary
embolism shortly after being diagnosed with cancer."
Did you happen to catch tommys theory?
--
Add xx to reply
Jeff Liebermann
2024-12-04 17:23:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 06:46:35 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
The list goes on, and on....Wait, how did Jack Ruby die again?
<https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jack-Ruby>
"Before a new trial could be held, however, Ruby died from a pulmonary
embolism shortly after being diagnosed with cancer."
Did you happen to catch tommys theory?
Yes, I did, but only after I wrote the above reply. I've been very
busy for the last 2 weeks and don't have much time for RBT. I read
what I can but I can't read everything. I read (or mark as read)
about 30 articles per day, but am currently about 300 articles behind.
Tom's article at:
Message-ID: <vilc9d$3j222$***@dont-email.me>
looks like the typical conspiracy theory rants, where everyone who
might have been even remotely involved, is reclassified as an active
conspirator. For example, this masterpiece of connect the dots from a
local attorney:
"UCSC 2013: JFK Assassination"
<https://www.danielpsheehan.com/ucsc-2013-jfk-assassination/>
I didn't attend any of his lectures, but some of my friends did, who
then tried to convince me that with so many conspiracy theories, some
of them must be true. I did my best to be diplomatic.

I tried to determine if Tom actually wrote what he posted or if he
borrowed it from somewhere. I cut-n-pasted Tom's article into:
<https://www.online-spellcheck.com>
which found the spelling to be 97% correct for all types of errors
with only 15 spelling errors in 496 words. The percentage of
spelling, typo and grammar errors seem about the same as Tom's other
RBT postings. Inconclusive.

I don't have an opinion on the content of Tom's posting. Without
sources and substantiating evidence, it's worthless to me. It's also
too much trouble to investigate all the connections mentioned. It's a
good example of too much information being used the discourage anyone
from looking at it too closely.

Bah Humbug (it's the season, so I can say that).
--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
AMuzi
2024-12-04 17:32:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Liebermann
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 06:46:35 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
The list goes on, and on....Wait, how did Jack Ruby die again?
<https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jack-Ruby>
"Before a new trial could be held, however, Ruby died from a pulmonary
embolism shortly after being diagnosed with cancer."
Did you happen to catch tommys theory?
Yes, I did, but only after I wrote the above reply. I've been very
busy for the last 2 weeks and don't have much time for RBT. I read
what I can but I can't read everything. I read (or mark as read)
about 30 articles per day, but am currently about 300 articles behind.
looks like the typical conspiracy theory rants, where everyone who
might have been even remotely involved, is reclassified as an active
conspirator. For example, this masterpiece of connect the dots from a
"UCSC 2013: JFK Assassination"
<https://www.danielpsheehan.com/ucsc-2013-jfk-assassination/>
I didn't attend any of his lectures, but some of my friends did, who
then tried to convince me that with so many conspiracy theories, some
of them must be true. I did my best to be diplomatic.
I tried to determine if Tom actually wrote what he posted or if he
<https://www.online-spellcheck.com>
which found the spelling to be 97% correct for all types of errors
with only 15 spelling errors in 496 words. The percentage of
spelling, typo and grammar errors seem about the same as Tom's other
RBT postings. Inconclusive.
I don't have an opinion on the content of Tom's posting. Without
sources and substantiating evidence, it's worthless to me. It's also
too much trouble to investigate all the connections mentioned. It's a
good example of too much information being used the discourage anyone
from looking at it too closely.
Bah Humbug (it's the season, so I can say that).
At some point (and I reached it long ago) the mismatch
between Warren Report conclusions and actual evidence leads
one to just accept that the truth will probably never be known.

A few of the many incongruities:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66792977

Which does not 'prove' a CIA hit or anything else. They're
just incongruities.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
John B.
2024-12-05 03:08:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by AMuzi
Post by Jeff Liebermann
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 06:46:35 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
The list goes on, and on....Wait, how did Jack Ruby die again?
<https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jack-Ruby>
"Before a new trial could be held, however, Ruby died from a pulmonary
embolism shortly after being diagnosed with cancer."
Did you happen to catch tommys theory?
Yes, I did, but only after I wrote the above reply. I've been very
busy for the last 2 weeks and don't have much time for RBT. I read
what I can but I can't read everything. I read (or mark as read)
about 30 articles per day, but am currently about 300 articles behind.
looks like the typical conspiracy theory rants, where everyone who
might have been even remotely involved, is reclassified as an active
conspirator. For example, this masterpiece of connect the dots from a
"UCSC 2013: JFK Assassination"
<https://www.danielpsheehan.com/ucsc-2013-jfk-assassination/>
I didn't attend any of his lectures, but some of my friends did, who
then tried to convince me that with so many conspiracy theories, some
of them must be true. I did my best to be diplomatic.
I tried to determine if Tom actually wrote what he posted or if he
<https://www.online-spellcheck.com>
which found the spelling to be 97% correct for all types of errors
with only 15 spelling errors in 496 words. The percentage of
spelling, typo and grammar errors seem about the same as Tom's other
RBT postings. Inconclusive.
I don't have an opinion on the content of Tom's posting. Without
sources and substantiating evidence, it's worthless to me. It's also
too much trouble to investigate all the connections mentioned. It's a
good example of too much information being used the discourage anyone
from looking at it too closely.
Bah Humbug (it's the season, so I can say that).
At some point (and I reached it long ago) the mismatch
between Warren Report conclusions and actual evidence leads
one to just accept that the truth will probably never be known.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66792977
I just started reading your reference and
(1) the autopsy performed on JFK showed that he had been hit twice
from the rear.

Any one that has ever been hunting is aware that bullet wounds are
very obviously directional (small hole in the entrance, larger hole in
the exit)

(2)The question of whether the shooter could have fired 2 shots so
quickly?

The NRA actually made some tests using the same make and model rifle
and bullets, which was publish in their magazine "American Rifleman,
which showed that an average rifle shooter was quite capable of firing
two 2 shots, and hitting an equal size target, at the same distance,
with no problems.

I've yet to read further.
Post by AMuzi
Which does not 'prove' a CIA hit or anything else. They're
just incongruities.
--
Cheers,

John B.
Zen Cycle
2024-12-04 17:34:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jeff Liebermann
Post by Zen Cycle
Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 06:46:35 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
The list goes on, and on....Wait, how did Jack Ruby die again?
<https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jack-Ruby>
"Before a new trial could be held, however, Ruby died from a pulmonary
embolism shortly after being diagnosed with cancer."
Did you happen to catch tommys theory?
Yes, I did, but only after I wrote the above reply. I've been very
busy for the last 2 weeks and don't have much time for RBT. I read
what I can but I can't read everything. I read (or mark as read)
about 30 articles per day, but am currently about 300 articles behind.
looks like the typical conspiracy theory rants, where everyone who
might have been even remotely involved, is reclassified as an active
conspirator. For example, this masterpiece of connect the dots from a
"UCSC 2013: JFK Assassination"
<https://www.danielpsheehan.com/ucsc-2013-jfk-assassination/>
I didn't attend any of his lectures, but some of my friends did, who
then tried to convince me that with so many conspiracy theories, some
of them must be true. I did my best to be diplomatic.
I tried to determine if Tom actually wrote what he posted or if he
<https://www.online-spellcheck.com>
which found the spelling to be 97% correct for all types of errors
with only 15 spelling errors in 496 words. The percentage of
spelling, typo and grammar errors seem about the same as Tom's other
RBT postings. Inconclusive.
I don't have an opinion on the content of Tom's posting.
I do, it's just another tommy tar-baby (to borrow from Andrew).
Post by Jeff Liebermann
Without
sources and substantiating evidence, it's worthless to me.
It's also
too much trouble to investigate all the connections mentioned. It's a
good example of too much information being used the discourage anyone
from looking at it too closely.
Bah Humbug (it's the season, so I can say that).
--
Add xx to reply
Tom Kunich
2024-12-07 21:59:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared
about it. Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II. So with someone in the White House that
WANTS to pay it off, he can use extraordinary means by closing
down large sections of government that have been spending money
like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to
the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some
more information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the
pressure of a treaty with France supplied military advisors to
French IndoChina. (Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA
convinced him that the future of democracy depended on the
protection of South Vietnam from the communist north. Firstly the
south Vietnamese couldn't care less what their government was
because neither side offered the average man anything ans secondly
because the north was by no means a Chinese style revolutionary
communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of
active army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had
decided to simply leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he
could announce it, Lee Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot
JFK dead. There was another gunman on the grassi knoll who also
shot Kennedy from the front and everyone denied that the slinging
of JFK backwards and nearly over the rear seat was because of a
shot from the front. They had evenj assigned rookey SS agents to
JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history
that explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald
mean when he shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the
hell that Jack Ruby ended up in the basement of the police
department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied
the number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon
forced north Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored
but gave us a chance to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was
supposedly because Iraq was manufacturing bio warfare weapons.
There was never any proof of that found and the supposed labs were
more for looking for it being used against them. Poison gas stores
were found but old and deserted and WE have poison gas stores just
in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just
as easy to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of
the pipe bombs being set before the Democrat and Republican Party
headquarters shows total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC
police which shows that the plan was to blame Trump extremists but
it was too little and too late. Instead they used January 6th as
an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated
into wars by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that
everyone doesn't see it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his
cell like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby,
that for cameras on Epstein were either not working or were
accidentally moved to point in the wrong direction? That the
gaurds missed their usual check on him?
Hey Tommy! Jack Ruby died of a pulmonary embolism on January 3, 1967,
at Parkland Hospital,
His conviction had been overturned and he had been granted a re-trial.
You mean tommy lied about something?
The single arbiter of all that is right, pure, and true in forum forum
has told a mis-truth?!?!?!
SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!
I truly believe that Tommy is either one of the more stupid people to
inhabit the world or is a psychopathic liar.
It's both.
I'm still waiting for him to explain how he went from living on social
security in 2013 to making $12000 a month off his investments without
having an income source _other_ than social security.
Then there was that tall tale of how he was a "senior business
manager/cosultant" or some other such horseshit while allegedly saving
the world by designing emergency-room medical electronics (but never had
to deal with the FDA).
The list goes on, and on....Wait, how did Jack Ruby die again?
lol...
I presently have over a million dollars in investments. With the election
of Trump the S$P gained 5.5%. If you can add and subtract perhaps you can
explain to me how much my investments which are largely S&P gained?


Or did this frazzle your brain too much for you to figure out? You can
always pull your usual cry that I'm living on Social Security which is
mostly true since I own my own home and cook for myself and my wife so SS
is more or less adequate to pay my bills. Including my dental work, my
medication and buying and operating my poor old 15 year old car that gets
35 mpg on the open road. Gee I'm even making 19 mpg in the city. Your
transportation probably uses friction shifters.
Shadow
2024-12-07 23:32:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 21:59:25 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
I presently have over a million dollars in investments. With the election
of Trump the S$P gained 5.5%. If you can add and subtract perhaps you can
explain to me how much my investments which are largely S&P gained?
A lot less than under Obama, from what I understand. And he
inherited Bush's economic disaster. Amazing. You must really worship
Obama.
[]'s
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Google Fuchsia - 2021
Frank Krygowski
2024-12-08 03:56:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
You can
always pull your usual cry that I'm living on Social Security which is
mostly true since I own my own home and cook for myself and my wife...
You cook for yourself and your wife?

Do you also own a dog yet do your own barking? :-)

(OK, I know there are men who prefer to do the cooking. But that quip
was too easy to pass up.)
--
- Frank Krygowski
zen cycle
2024-12-09 03:30:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared
about it. Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as
it was after WW II. So with someone in the White House that
WANTS to pay it off, he can use extraordinary means by closing
down large sections of government that have been spending money
like it was water. The CIA for instance used to be an
organization that gathered intelligence that showed threats to
the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some
more information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the
pressure of a treaty with France supplied military advisors to
French IndoChina. (Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA
convinced him that the future of democracy depended on the
protection of South Vietnam from the communist north. Firstly the
south Vietnamese couldn't care less what their government was
because neither side offered the average man anything ans secondly
because the north was by no means a Chinese style revolutionary
communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of
active army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had
decided to simply leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he
could announce it, Lee Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot
JFK dead. There was another gunman on the grassi knoll who also
shot Kennedy from the front and everyone denied that the slinging
of JFK backwards and nearly over the rear seat was because of a
shot from the front. They had evenj assigned rookey SS agents to
JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history
that explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald
mean when he shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the
hell that Jack Ruby ended up in the basement of the police
department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied
the number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon
forced north Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored
but gave us a chance to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was
supposedly because Iraq was manufacturing bio warfare weapons.
There was never any proof of that found and the supposed labs were
more for looking for it being used against them. Poison gas stores
were found but old and deserted and WE have poison gas stores just
in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just
as easy to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of
the pipe bombs being set before the Democrat and Republican Party
headquarters shows total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC
police which shows that the plan was to blame Trump extremists but
it was too little and too late. Instead they used January 6th as
an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated
into wars by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that
everyone doesn't see it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his
cell like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby,
that for cameras on Epstein were either not working or were
accidentally moved to point in the wrong direction? That the
gaurds missed their usual check on him?
Hey Tommy! Jack Ruby died of a pulmonary embolism on January 3, 1967,
at Parkland Hospital,
His conviction had been overturned and he had been granted a re-trial.
You mean tommy lied about something?
The single arbiter of all that is right, pure, and true in forum forum
has told a mis-truth?!?!?!
SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!
I truly believe that Tommy is either one of the more stupid people to
inhabit the world or is a psychopathic liar.
It's both.
I'm still waiting for him to explain how he went from living on social
security in 2013 to making $12000 a month off his investments without
having an income source _other_ than social security.
Then there was that tall tale of how he was a "senior business
manager/cosultant" or some other such horseshit while allegedly saving
the world by designing emergency-room medical electronics (but never had
to deal with the FDA).
The list goes on, and on....Wait, how did Jack Ruby die again?
lol...
I presently have over a million dollars in investments.
No, you don't
Post by Tom Kunich
With the election
of Trump the S$P gained 5.5%. If you can add and subtract perhaps you can
explain to me how much my investments which are largely S&P gained?
Or did this frazzle your brain too much for you to figure out?
Sure. it's 0%. You don't have any investments.
Post by Tom Kunich
You can
always pull your usual cry that I'm living on Social Security which is
mostly true since I own my own home and cook for myself and my wife so SS
is more or less adequate to pay my bills. Including my dental work, my
medication and buying and operating my poor old 15 year old car that gets
35 mpg on the open road. Gee I'm even making 19 mpg in the city. Your
transportation probably uses friction shifters.
lol..no one believes you have a 15 year old american car that gets 35
mpg highway.

even if the stories of you owning your house are true, why dont' you
ever take a nice vacation? Gee making $12000 a month with no expenses?
what kind of cheap little prick are you?
John B.
2024-12-03 12:28:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 05:46:33 -0500, zen cycle
Post by zen cycle
Post by John B.
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
Hey Tommy! Jack Ruby died of a pulmonary embolism on January 3, 1967,
at Parkland Hospital,
His conviction had been overturned and he had been granted a re-trial.
You mean tommy lied about something?
The single arbiter of all that is right, pure, and true in forum forum
has told a mis-truth?!?!?!
SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!
I truly believe that Tommy is either one of the more stupid people to
inhabit the world or is a psychopathic liar.
--
Cheers,

John B.
Frank Krygowski
2024-12-03 16:05:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by John B.
I truly believe that Tommy is either one of the more stupid people to
inhabit the world or is a psychopathic liar.
Those conditions are not mutually exclusive.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Tom Kunich
2024-12-07 21:44:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about
it. Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was
after WW II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay
it off, he can use extraordinary means by closing down large
sections of government that have been spending money like it was
water. The CIA for instance used to be an organization that
gathered intelligence that showed threats to the USA. Then it
became captured by the Military-Industrial complex and started
every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure
of a treaty with France supplied military advisors to French
IndoChina. (Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him
that the future of democracy depended on the protection of South
Vietnam from the communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese
couldn't care less what their government was because neither side
offered the average man anything ans secondly because the north was
by no means a Chinese style revolutionary communism. You can't take
from your citizens what they don't have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of
active army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided
to simply leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could
announce it, Lee Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead.
There was another gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy
from the front and everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards
and nearly over the rear seat was because of a shot from the front.
They had evenj assigned rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather
than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when
he shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that
Jack Ruby ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied
the number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon
forced north Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored
but gave us a chance to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was
supposedly because Iraq was manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There
was never any proof of that found and the supposed labs were more for
looking for it being used against them. Poison gas stores were found
but old and deserted and WE have poison gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as
easy to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe
bombs being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters
shows total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows
that the plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and
too late. Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into
wars by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone
doesn't see it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his
cell like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that
for cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally
moved to point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their
usual check on him?
Hey Tommy! Jack Ruby died of a pulmonary embolism on January 3, 1967, at
Parkland Hospital,
His conviction had been overturned and he had been granted a re-trial.
Watching you post is like listening to rain on the roof. You, like
Liebermann, know nothing and will believe absolutely anything that will
give you some point to atrue.
John B.
2024-12-03 02:04:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
Hey Tommy! Jack Ruby died of a pulmonary embolism on January 3, 1967,
at Parkland Hospital,

His conviction had been overturned and he had been granted a re-trial.
--
Cheers,

John B.
Tom Kunich
2024-12-07 21:38:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he
can use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of
government that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA
for instance used to be an organization that gathered intelligence
that showed threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the
Military-Industrial complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of
a treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the
future of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man
anything ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they
don't have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced
north Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us
a chance to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq
was manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that
found and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used
against them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE
have poison gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as
easy to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe
bombs being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters
shows total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows
that the plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and
too late. Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check
on him?
You have so many things right but so many absolutely wrong
that I wonder if you even question your sources.
Your brain must act like blotting paper.
LOL []'s
As an Argentinian you REALLY know a lot about the US economy, while living
in a country on the verge of bankruptcy and run by criminals. Why is that?

"The political establishment’s failure to fix decades of crisis in
Argentina explains the tide of popular rage that vaulted the irascible
Javier Milei, a self-declared “anarcho-capitalist,” to the presidency."

But Shadow is a self proclaimed expert on the US economy.
Shadow
2024-12-07 23:22:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 7 Dec 2024 21:38:58 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip crazy theories about people hanging themselves and then ending
up alive and well>
Post by Tom Kunich
As an Argentinian you REALLY know a lot about the US economy, while living
in a country on the verge of bankruptcy and run by criminals. Why is that?
Our GNP increased more than the US this year, thanks to our
Center-leaning President. (you'd probably call him a communist because
he reduced the taxes the poor pay). GNP didn't increase more because
the far right still controls the Central Bank, Congress and the
judiciary.

And as a South African**, YOU should know that Milei was voted
in because of American social media. If I even knew any Argentinians
I'd tell them how stupid they were. NEVER vote far right, whatever the
#FAKE_NEWS says.
[]'s

** PS I know you're not a Canadian, because people get a
decent education in Canada. Same with England and Australia. You MIGHT
from outer space, which would explain your frequent spelling mistakes,
and your "special knowledge" on how an unlawful extraterrestrial gets
a free car from the US government. The plot thickens....
--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Google Fuchsia - 2021
AMuzi
2024-12-02 22:43:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam). With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north. Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Johnson was certainly not going to be assassinated so he muliplied the
number of troops in south Vietnam casualties be damned. Nixon forced north
Vietnam into signing a treaty that both sides ignored but gave us a chance
to get out of Vietnam. The Gulf War was supposedly because Iraq was
manufacturing bio warfare weapons. There was never any proof of that found
and the supposed labs were more for looking for it being used against
them. Poison gas stores were found but old and deserted and WE have poison
gas stores just in case also.
The CIA knew about the plans for 911 and told no one. It was just as easy
to manipulte the Taliban as anyone else. The video's of the pipe bombs
being set before the Democrat and Republican Party headquarters shows
total unconcern by the Secret Service and DC police which shows that the
plan was to blame Trump extremists but it was too little and too late.
Instead they used January 6th as an "insurrection".
There is so much hard evidence of the public being manipulated into wars
by the CIA that I find it difficult to believe that everyone doesn't see
it.
Doesn't it strike you as strange that Ruby "killed himself" in his cell
like Epstein did? That while there was no cameras on Ruby, that for
cameras on Epstein were either not working or were accidentally moved to
point in the wrong direction? That the gaurds missed their usual check on
him?
https://www.americanwarlibrary.com/vietnam/vwatl.htm
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
John B.
2024-12-03 05:18:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam).
The U.S. supplied a bit more then "Advisors". they supplied Bombers -
maybe B-26? - with U.S. maintenance people (don't know about flight
crew) as when I went to Japan the first time in about 1953 the guy in
the next seat was going to "French Indo-China" and there was a long
discussion about where that was.
Interestingly I ran into the guy about a year later when he was going
back to the U.S. The first time I heard the word "Vietnam".
Post by Tom Kunich
With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north.
I don't believe you are correct as: President Harry S. Truman declared
his doctrine of "containment" of communism in 1947 at the start of the
Cold War. U.S. involvement in Vietnam began in 1950, with Truman
sending military advisors to assist France against Viet Minh
guerrillas in the First Indochina War.
Post by Tom Kunich
Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
You seem to be getting away from the Vietnam subject but O.K.

Re JFK:
The choice of autopsy hospital in the Washington, D.C. area was made
by his widow, First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy, who chose the Bethesda as
President Kennedy had been a naval officer during World War II.
The autopsy was conducted by two physicians, Commander James Humes and
Commander J. Thornton Boswell. They were assisted by ballistics wound
expert Pierre Finck of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.

The autopsy found that Kennedy was hit by two bullets. One entered his
upper back and exited below his neck, albeit obscured by a
tracheotomy. The other bullet struck Kennedy in the back of his head
and exited the front of his skull in a large exit wound. The
trajectory of the latter bullet was marked by bullet fragments
throughout his brain. The former bullet was not found during the
autopsy, but was discovered at Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas.
Post by Tom Kunich
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Enough. You keep changing the subject and two in one post is enough.
--
Cheers,

John B.
cyclintom
2024-12-04 18:03:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam).
The U.S. supplied a bit more then "Advisors". they supplied Bombers -
maybe B-26? - with U.S. maintenance people (don't know about flight
crew) as when I went to Japan the first time in about 1953 the guy in
the next seat was going to "French Indo-China" and there was a long
discussion about where that was.
Interestingly I ran into the guy about a year later when he was going
back to the U.S. The first time I heard the word "Vietnam".
Post by Tom Kunich
With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north.
I don't believe you are correct as: President Harry S. Truman declared
his doctrine of "containment" of communism in 1947 at the start of the
Cold War. U.S. involvement in Vietnam began in 1950, with Truman
sending military advisors to assist France against Viet Minh
guerrillas in the First Indochina War.
Post by Tom Kunich
Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
You seem to be getting away from the Vietnam subject but O.K.
The choice of autopsy hospital in the Washington, D.C. area was made
by his widow, First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy, who chose the Bethesda as
President Kennedy had been a naval officer during World War II.
The autopsy was conducted by two physicians, Commander James Humes and
Commander J. Thornton Boswell. They were assisted by ballistics wound
expert Pierre Finck of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.
The autopsy found that Kennedy was hit by two bullets. One entered his
upper back and exited below his neck, albeit obscured by a
tracheotomy. The other bullet struck Kennedy in the back of his head
and exited the front of his skull in a large exit wound. The
trajectory of the latter bullet was marked by bullet fragments
throughout his brain. The former bullet was not found during the
autopsy, but was discovered at Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas.
Post by Tom Kunich
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Enough. You keep changing the subject and two in one post is enough.
--
Cheers,
John B.
Exactly why are you bringing up Truman when Eisenhower was elected almost unanimously and warned the entire world about the American military-industrial complex and Kennedy was eloected with that in mind? It took a great deal of work for the CIA to convince Kennedy that he should engage the American people in yet another war at a time when we hadn't even paid the bills for WW II. You can believe anything you like but reality seems to bypass your thought processes.
AMuzi
2024-12-04 19:43:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by cyclintom
Post by Shadow
On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 22:27:57 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
Post by John B.
On Sun, 24 Nov 2024 22:34:55 -0000 (UTC), Tom Kunich
Post by Tom Kunich
The US national debt was out of control because no one cared about it.
Well, the Nation Debt per capita is about the same as it was after WW
II. So with someone in the White House that WANTS to pay it off, he can
use extraordinary means by closing down large sections of government
that have been spending money like it was water. The CIA for instance
used to be an organization that gathered intelligence that showed
threats to the USA. Then it became captured by the Military-Industrial
complex and started every war since Korea.
I find that a very interesting statement. Please provide some more
information on how the CIA started the Vietnam war.
John, you were there according to you. Eisenhowor under the pressure of a
treaty with France supplied military advisors to French IndoChina.
(Vietnam).
The U.S. supplied a bit more then "Advisors". they supplied Bombers -
maybe B-26? - with U.S. maintenance people (don't know about flight
crew) as when I went to Japan the first time in about 1953 the guy in
the next seat was going to "French Indo-China" and there was a long
discussion about where that was.
Interestingly I ran into the guy about a year later when he was going
back to the U.S. The first time I heard the word "Vietnam".
Post by Tom Kunich
With the election of JFK the CIA convinced him that the future
of democracy depended on the protection of South Vietnam from the
communist north.
I don't believe you are correct as: President Harry S. Truman declared
his doctrine of "containment" of communism in 1947 at the start of the
Cold War. U.S. involvement in Vietnam began in 1950, with Truman
sending military advisors to assist France against Viet Minh
guerrillas in the First Indochina War.
Post by Tom Kunich
Firstly the south Vietnamese couldn't care less what
their government was because neither side offered the average man anything
ans secondly because the north was by no means a Chinese style
revolutionary communism. You can't take from your citizens what they don't
have.
But under the CIA pressure to save the world JFK put thousands of active
army into that dump. He finally saw the truth and had decided to simply
leave Vietnam to its own devices and before he could announce it, Lee
Harvey Oswald, a CIA sniper assasine shot JFK dead. There was another
gunman on the grassi knoll who also shot Kennedy from the front and
everyone denied that the slinging of JFK backwards and nearly over the
rear seat was because of a shot from the front. They had evenj assigned
rookey SS agents to JFK so they froze rather than cover JFK.
You seem to be getting away from the Vietnam subject but O.K.
The choice of autopsy hospital in the Washington, D.C. area was made
by his widow, First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy, who chose the Bethesda as
President Kennedy had been a naval officer during World War II.
The autopsy was conducted by two physicians, Commander James Humes and
Commander J. Thornton Boswell. They were assisted by ballistics wound
expert Pierre Finck of the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology.
The autopsy found that Kennedy was hit by two bullets. One entered his
upper back and exited below his neck, albeit obscured by a
tracheotomy. The other bullet struck Kennedy in the back of his head
and exited the front of his skull in a large exit wound. The
trajectory of the latter bullet was marked by bullet fragments
throughout his brain. The former bullet was not found during the
autopsy, but was discovered at Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas.
Post by Tom Kunich
The Warren Commision was one of the biggest coverups in history that
explaned none of the real questions like; what did Oswald mean when he
shouted to reporters that he was "set up" or how the hell that Jack Ruby
ended up in the basement of the police department armed.
Enough. You keep changing the subject and two in one post is enough.
--
Cheers,
John B.
Exactly why are you bringing up Truman when Eisenhower was elected almost unanimously and warned the entire world about the American military-industrial complex and Kennedy was eloected with that in mind? It took a great deal of work for the CIA to convince Kennedy that he should engage the American people in yet another war at a time when we hadn't even paid the bills for WW II. You can believe anything you like but reality seems to bypass your thought processes.
No one is perfect. And Presidents decide in the moment, with
incomplete information, among unpleasant alternatives.


Mr Eisenhower refused air support at Dien Bien Phu 1954,
support of British and French at the Suez 1956, to Tibet
against CCP in 1956 and Battista in July 1959. Some might
say 'coulda woulda shoulda' but it's all conjecture.

He made broad use of CIA:
https://proquest.libguides.com/dnsa/58

Which Mr Kennedy intended to curtail with his new Navy Seals
(same idea, different command structure). I know (and knew)
Seals in Viet Nam early on (1964-5-6) who say it was a joint
CIA-Seal operation with much conflict between the two;
policy, strategy, tactics, operations.
--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
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