Fixie learning curve - bunny hops

[Michael Press]

I converted my old road bike to a fixie and absolutely love it.

For the first half hour of my first ride I kept thinking, "This is
fun, but what's the big deal?." At around mile 8 I experienced the
magic. Now I grab this bike first, especially for a quick srpint
around the neighborhood that I'd never bother with on one of my
regular bikes.

I got past the initial learning curve - starting and stopping.
I got past the next learning curve - don't forget to pedal (I never
realized I coast when sliding my butt back on the seat)
I got past the learning curve after that - modulating speed with only
my legs, regardless of hill size.
And I got past the next learning curve - riding comfortably in urban
traffic on my commute.

So the next hurdle is handling bumps and potholes. On my regular bikes
I can bunny hop over stuff, but I stop pedaling to pull the bike up.

So far I can raise the front wheel on the fixie to reduce impact, but
I don't think I'm ready to launch the bike into the air yet. Any
words of wisdom, especially from fixed-MTBers?

Thanks,
Michael

[Shayne Wissler]

Post by Michael Press
I converted my old road bike to a fixie and absolutely love it.
For the first half hour of my first ride I kept thinking, "This is
fun, but what's the big deal?." At around mile 8 I experienced the
magic.

Are "fixies" one of those "If you understand, no explanation is necessary;
if you do not understand, none is possible" things?

For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want to ride one. If
I decide I don't want to stop pedaling I can just decide not to; I don't
care to have the decision forced on me.


Shayne

[David Reuteler]

Post by Shayne Wissler
Are "fixies" one of those "If you understand, no explanation is necessary;
if you do not understand, none is possible" things?

apparently.

Post by Shayne Wissler
For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want to ride one. If
I decide I don't want to stop pedaling I can just decide not to; I don't
care to have the decision forced on me.

ok, definitely.

[Tom Schulenburg]

Post by Shayne Wissler
For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want to ride one. If
I decide I don't want to stop pedaling I can just decide not to; I don't
care to have the decision forced on me.

It's not quite as simple as that. Of the many realizations one gains from
riding a fixed gear, the first I experienced was how uneven my power output
was. With a freewheel, the power seemed to max out at the top and bottom of
the stroke. With a fixed gear, you are forced to maintain a constant power
output throughout the cycle. Other tangible/intangible benefits are:

- Develops smoother, more efficient cadence.
- More efficient with no freewheel / derailleur.
- It's quiet.
- Using resistance to slow down cross trains muscles in legs.
- Trying to keep up on the downhills improves leg speed

In general, it's a different kind of ride. If you're looking for a workout,
you won't get cheated on a fixie.

-T

[Michael Press]

Post by Tom Schulenburg
It's not quite as simple as that. Of the many realizations one gains from
riding a fixed gear, the first I experienced was how uneven my power output
was. With a freewheel, the power seemed to max out at the top and bottom of
the stroke. With a fixed gear, you are forced to maintain a constant power
- Develops smoother, more efficient cadence.
- More efficient with no freewheel / derailleur.
- It's quiet.
- Using resistance to slow down cross trains muscles in legs.
- Trying to keep up on the downhills improves leg speed
In general, it's a different kind of ride. If you're looking for a workout,
you won't get cheated on a fixie.

It's a Zen thing, once you get good at it. You become one with the
bike. You become one with the road. You become one with your
surroundings. Without shifting or braking you control the bike
entirely through your legs, and that frees your mind.

Plus it's a much more concentrated workout.

Michael

[Sheldon Brown]

Post by Shayne Wissler

Post by Michael Press
I converted my old road bike to a fixie and absolutely love it.
For the first half hour of my first ride I kept thinking, "This is
fun, but what's the big deal?." At around mile 8 I experienced the
magic.

Are "fixies" one of those "If you understand, no explanation is necessary;
if you do not understand, none is possible" things?

Exactly.

Post by Shayne Wissler
For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want to ride one. If
I decide I don't want to stop pedaling I can just decide not to; I don't
care to have the decision forced on me.

Yes, that's how it usually seems to those who haven't experienced it.

Nobody is able to fully explain the charm of fixed-gear riding in words,
sounds all mystical and spiritual when you try, viz:

http://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-testimonial.html

Most people need to spend a couple of weeks with it to get past the
unfamiliarity, before they start to experience the joys of fixed gear.

Sheldon "Effing The Ineffable?" Brown
+---------------------------------------------------+
| It is the province of knowledge to speak and |
| it is the privilege of wisdom to listen. |
| -- Oliver Wendell Holmes Sr. |
+---------------------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone [phone] FAX [phone]
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[Kinky Cowboy]

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 17:21:39 GMT, "Shayne Wissler"

Post by Shayne Wissler

Post by Michael Press
I converted my old road bike to a fixie and absolutely love it.

Are "fixies" one of those "If you understand, no explanation is necessary;
if you do not understand, none is possible" things?
Shayne

The only way to understand it is to do it. Like sex, but riding fixed
lasts longer :-)

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary

[Tom Paterson]

From: "Shayne Wissler"
For the life of me I don't understand why >anyone would want to ride one

[fixed gear bicycle].

You can run old worn-out crap in the sloppy seasons, saving money on chains and
chainwheels/cogs. Cog clusters get clogged with ice, so that even if the r.
derailleur still moves, you're stuck in one gear anyhow.

Track stands at wherever you want to pull a track stand are easier.

Simplicity, which some people find so appealing that they even leave all the
brakes off.

"Status" among racerheads (esp. if used on group rides with derailleur bikes).

Fun (subjective).

There's a few. "Try it, you might like it."
--TP

[Bill Davidson]

Post by Shayne Wissler
For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want to ride one. If
I decide I don't want to stop pedaling I can just decide not to; I don't
care to have the decision forced on me.

I'd be tempted to try it if I didn't have significant hills on every ride.

Also, I live in California and we have this little law:

California Vehicle Code, Division 11, Chapter 1, Article 4, section 21201,
paragraph (a)

|No person shall operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped with
|a brake which will enable the operator to make one braked wheel skid on dry,
|level, clean pavement.

So I'd need at least one brake to be legal. Actually, I think that'd make
me feel a little safer anyway, at least at first.

--Bill Davidson

[G.T.]

Post by Bill Davidson

Post by Shayne Wissler
For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want to ride one. If
I decide I don't want to stop pedaling I can just decide not to; I don't
care to have the decision forced on me.

I'd be tempted to try it if I didn't have significant hills on every ride.
California Vehicle Code, Division 11, Chapter 1, Article 4, section 21201,
paragraph (a)
|No person shall operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped with
|a brake which will enable the operator to make one braked wheel skid on dry,
|level, clean pavement.
So I'd need at least one brake to be legal. Actually, I think that'd make
me feel a little safer anyway, at least at first.

Many fixies on the street have front brakes in case the chain breaks.
Harris Cyclery sells several built that way.

Greg

[David L. Johnson]

Post by Bill Davidson
|No person shall operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped with
|a brake which will enable the operator to make one braked wheel skid on dry,
|level, clean pavement.
So I'd need at least one brake to be legal. Actually, I think that'd make
me feel a little safer anyway, at least at first.

IMNSHO you'd need at least one brake to not be stupid.

[Luke]

Post by David L. Johnson

Post by Bill Davidson
|No person shall operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped with
|a brake which will enable the operator to make one braked wheel skid on
|dry,
|level, clean pavement.
So I'd need at least one brake to be legal. Actually, I think that'd make
me feel a little safer anyway, at least at first.

IMNSHO you'd need at least one brake to not be stupid.

Yes, we'd often refer to our front brake as the "Stupid Lever": Every
time a pedestrian or motorist - but never a cyclist of course - did
something stupid, we'd pull the 'stupid lever.'

There were instances where I didn't resort to the lever for over a
week. And others when it saved body and soul several times a day.

luke

[Ted Bennett]

Post by Bill Davidson
California Vehicle Code, Division 11, Chapter 1, Article 4, section 21201,
paragraph (a)
|No person shall operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped with
|a brake which will enable the operator to make one braked wheel skid on dry,
|level, clean pavement.
So I'd need at least one brake to be legal. Actually, I think that'd make
me feel a little safer anyway, at least at first.
--Bill Davidson

Hmm. My fixie has only a front brake. I can't make it skid on dry,
level, clean pavement unless I go backwards. So I guess I'm illegal.
Shrug.

I have never been able to skid a front wheel under those circumstances.
The bike endos first.

[dvt]

Post by Ted Bennett

Post by Bill Davidson
California Vehicle Code, Division 11, Chapter 1, Article 4, section 21201,
paragraph (a)
|No person shall operate a bicycle on a roadway unless it is equipped with
|a brake which will enable the operator to make one braked wheel skid on dry,
|level, clean pavement.

Hmm. My fixie has only a front brake. I can't make it skid on dry,
level, clean pavement unless I go backwards. So I guess I'm illegal.
Shrug.

I'll bet you can skid the rear wheel. Unweight the rear wheel
momentarily, stop the rear wheel with the pedals, let the rear come back
down. Voila -- skid city.

[Philip Williamson]

Post by Shayne Wissler

Post by Michael Press
I converted my old road bike to a fixie and absolutely love it.
For the first half hour of my first ride I kept thinking, "This is
fun, but what's the big deal?." At around mile 8 I experienced the
magic.

Are "fixies" one of those "If you understand, no explanation is necessary;
if you do not understand, none is possible" things?
For the life of me I don't understand why anyone would want to ride one. If
I decide I don't want to stop pedaling I can just decide not to; I don't
care to have the decision forced on me.
Shayne

What's to explain? It's fun.
On the other hand, as you can see by the number of fixed gear posts on this
list, fixed riding is so big it's already over for the 'cool' kids.

Just kidding.
Philip

[Mike Latondresse]

Post by Michael Press
So the next hurdle is handling bumps and potholes. On my regular
bikes I can bunny hop over stuff, but I stop pedaling to pull the
bike up.
So far I can raise the front wheel on the fixie to reduce impact,
but I don't think I'm ready to launch the bike into the air yet.
Any words of wisdom, especially from fixed-MTBers?
Thanks,
Michael

Bunny hop. I have only been riding my fixie 2 years now so when I
find out I will let you know.

[David L. Johnson]

Post by Michael Press
So the next hurdle is handling bumps and potholes. On my regular bikes
I can bunny hop over stuff, but I stop pedaling to pull the bike up.
So far I can raise the front wheel on the fixie to reduce impact, but
I don't think I'm ready to launch the bike into the air yet. Any
words of wisdom, especially from fixed-MTBers?

Bringing this back to the original question: I'll let you know if I ever
figure it out. I've only been riding my fixed gear since 1970, so maybe I
still have time..... Certainly there are people who can do it; I've seen
people on the track jump over downed riders, but I've never been able to.

[Luke]

Post by Michael Press
So far I can raise the front wheel on the fixie to reduce impact, but
I don't think I'm ready to launch the bike into the air yet. Any
words of wisdom, especially from fixed-MTBers?
Thanks,
Michael

I'm not a MTB'er but during my messenger days I had often resorted to
bunny hopping my fixie - chiefly onto curbs. I've seen others quite
proficient at this. The most difficult aspect of the maneuver is
coordinating the hop with the position of the cranks. Usually this
would necessitate approaching the curb obliquely to ensure that a) the
cranks would be in an optimal position (ie.9 and 3 o'clock) to aid in
lifting and b) so that you don't inadvertently smash the crank into
curb before hopping onto it. (And collapse in an embarrassing heap
before amused pedestrians).

The logistics may sound daunting but it's surprising how unconsciously
you begin to account for timing required to make the hop. For instance:
The curb is 3 or 4 meters away, you know that your cranks will be in
the wrong location for the hop, so you kick up the rear wheel an inch
and back spin the cranks X amount of degrees to reposition the cranks
for the hop.

The most awkward proposition is to hop when you're faced with
unforeseen hazard, like a big pothole dead ahead, and you've no time to
prepare. This was always a clumsy exercise for me.

Like anything the more you do it the better ya get! If you're intent on
practicing this I'd start with the constituent elements. Popping up
onto a curb, or another elevation, by first raising the front wheel and
then the back. Or pick a spot x meters in front of you and, by hopping
the rear wheel, position the cranks accordingly as if you were going to
hop. Stoplights and pedestrian crossing are great for this: Preparatory
to track standing a little pedal positioning is usually required.

One caveat: If you plan on trying this with unpredictable clipless
pedals, be prepared for some intimate contact with terra firma.
Unexpectedly unclipping on a fixie is messy.

Last word: Michael, have fun first. All the above, I absorbed without
practice. The more you ride the more you'll recognize and put into
practice the nuances required.

luke

[R15757]

Luke wrote:

<<I'm not a MTB'er but during my messenger days I had often resorted to
bunny hopping my fixie - chiefly onto curbs. I've seen others quite
proficient at this. The most difficult aspect of the maneuver is
coordinating the hop with the position of the cranks. Usually this
would necessitate approaching the curb obliquely to ensure that a) the
cranks would be in an optimal position (ie.9 and 3 o'clock) to aid in
lifting and b) so that you don't inadvertently smash the crank into
curb before hopping onto it. (And collapse in an embarrassing heap
before amused pedestrians). >>

The OP should know that this applies to riding off/down curbs as well as up.
The pedals must be in a good position or it's bad..

<< One caveat: If you plan on trying this with unpredictable clipless
pedals, be prepared for some intimate contact with terra firma.
Unexpectedly unclipping on a fixie is messy. >>

10-4 on that. Inadvertent unclipping during a bunny hop is bad on a freewheel
bike too. That's why we use Time pedals.

Robert

[Sheldon Brown]

Post by R15757
<<I'm not a MTB'er but during my messenger days I had often resorted to
bunny hopping my fixie - chiefly onto curbs. I've seen others quite
proficient at this. The most difficult aspect of the maneuver is
coordinating the hop with the position of the cranks. Usually this
would necessitate approaching the curb obliquely to ensure that a) the
cranks would be in an optimal position (ie.9 and 3 o'clock) to aid in
lifting and b) so that you don't inadvertently smash the crank into
curb before hopping onto it. (And collapse in an embarrassing heap
before amused pedestrians). >>
The OP should know that this applies to riding off/down curbs as well as up.
The pedals must be in a good position or it's bad..

That's only an issue if you're going slowly. Riding down curbs is very
different from riding up them.

When you're riding down, it's no harder nor more stressfull on the bike
at 25 mph than at 5, the wheels will fall the height of the curb at the
same vertical rate whatever the horizontal velocity of the bike is.

Riding up a curb is quite different, partly because you need to time
your hops/unweighting of the two wheels separately for each wheel, and
partly because if you hit the curb's corner, the impact will be
proportional to the bike's speed.

Sheldon "Down Fast, Up Slow" Brown
+-----------------------------------------+
| The wind and waves are always on the |
| side of the ablest navigators. |
| --Edward Gibbon |
+-----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone [phone] FAX [phone]
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[RobertH]

Post by Sheldon Brown

Post by R15757
The OP should know that this applies to riding off/down curbs as well as up.
The pedals must be in a good position or it's bad..

That's only an issue if you're going slowly. Riding down curbs is very
different from riding up them.
When you're riding down, it's no harder nor more stressfull on the bike
at 25 mph than at 5, the wheels will fall the height of the curb at the
same vertical rate whatever the horizontal velocity of the bike is.

It sounds as if you are advising cyclists to speed and launch into the
street.

If you're going down/off a curb, that usually means you're going from
a sidewalk into the street, and in the middle of the block no less. If
a cyclist is doing this at speed, he's more than likely riding like an
idiot.

At conservative city sidewalk speeds, pedal strikes are an issue when
descending curbs on a fixed.

Robert
"easy does it"

[Sheldon Brown]

Post by RobertH

Post by Sheldon Brown

Post by R15757
The OP should know that this applies to riding off/down curbs as well as up.
The pedals must be in a good position or it's bad..

That's only an issue if you're going slowly. Riding down curbs is very
different from riding up them.
When you're riding down, it's no harder nor more stressfull on the bike
at 25 mph than at 5, the wheels will fall the height of the curb at the
same vertical rate whatever the horizontal velocity of the bike is.

It sounds as if you are advising cyclists to speed and launch into the
street.
If you're going down/off a curb, that usually means you're going from
a sidewalk into the street, and in the middle of the block no less. If
a cyclist is doing this at speed, he's more than likely riding like an
idiot.
At conservative city sidewalk speeds, pedal strikes are an issue when
descending curbs on a fixed.

I was thinking more of perpendicular curb descents, however, I did a bit
of the math, and that could indeed be an issue at intersections, if your
area still has intersections that don't have wheelchair ramps.

In my own case, the main time I have occasion to ride off curbs is when
merging into the street from a bike path, due to the dangers created by
bike paths at intersections.

When I do this, I find it preferable to be moving at a pretty good clip,
so I'm closer to matching the speed of the parallel motor traffic.

For such shallow oblique curb descents, I do time it so that my right
pedal is at 12 o'clock for best clearance.

I rarely ride up curbs, and almost never ride on city sidewalks.

Sheldon "Vehicular" Brown
+----------------------------------------+
| Cyclists fare best when they act and |
| are treated as drivers of vehicles. |
| -- John Forester |
| http://www.johnforester.com/ |
+----------------------------------------+
Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone [phone] FAX [phone]
http://harriscyclery.com
Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com

[R15757]

Sheldon Brown wrote in part:

<<... In my own case, the main time I have occasion to ride off curbs is when
merging into the street from a bike path, due to the dangers created by
bike paths at intersections.>>

<<When I do this, I find it preferable to be moving at a pretty good clip,
so I'm closer to matching the speed of the parallel motor traffic.,,,>>

I enjoy this move as well.

<<+----------------------------------------+
| Cyclists fare best when they act and |
| are treated as drivers of vehicles. |
| -- John Forester |>>

Except when they're launching off a curb into the
street I guess.

Robert

[G.T.]

Post by Luke

Post by Michael Press
So far I can raise the front wheel on the fixie to reduce impact, but
I don't think I'm ready to launch the bike into the air yet. Any
words of wisdom, especially from fixed-MTBers?
Thanks,
Michael

I'm not a MTB'er but during my messenger days I had often resorted to
bunny hopping my fixie - chiefly onto curbs. I've seen others quite
proficient at this. The most difficult aspect of the maneuver is
coordinating the hop with the position of the cranks. Usually this
would necessitate approaching the curb obliquely to ensure that a) the
cranks would be in an optimal position (ie.9 and 3 o'clock) to aid in
lifting and b) so that you don't inadvertently smash the crank into
curb before hopping onto it. (And collapse in an embarrassing heap
before amused pedestrians).

I've watched some messengers in SF making that stuff look so easy that I'd
be afraid when riding a fixie that I could do the same thing right off the
bat.

Greg

[dvt]

Post by Michael Press
So the next hurdle is handling bumps and potholes. On my regular bikes
I can bunny hop over stuff, but I stop pedaling to pull the bike up.
So far I can raise the front wheel on the fixie to reduce impact, but
I don't think I'm ready to launch the bike into the air yet. Any
words of wisdom, especially from fixed-MTBers?

I agree with Luke's response. I can bunny-hop a fixed, but not nearly as
well as I can bunny-hop a freewheeling bike. I need to plan ahead for
the bunny-hop and I need to be going fairly slow. I haven't tried
bunny-hopping at 100 rpm on the fixed, and I'll probably never try it.

As far as technique goes, just try it like you do on a freewheel bike.
You'll probably want to stop pedaling for a moment, but don't worry, the
bike will remind you that it's not possible. I'm sure you'll figure it
out within a few tries.

The primary lines of defense against bumps and potholes do not include
bunny-hops with a fixie. Evasive maneuvers are more appropriate, and
beefy equipment is probably next in line.