Artificiqal Intelligence

Post by cyclintom
I know you're all expecting me to comment on Liebermann, Flunky or Krygowski, but I am simply going to tell you where it is used.
The thumbprint detector on your phone which makes up most consumer goods sold by price. Face recognician software widely used by the government. And voice recognition software used whereever they have enough computationaol power.
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times. Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US. As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.
The point is: even with sharply defined boundaries, AI is a failure. Elon Musk owns an AI company and knows how to propagadize to mmake it successful. There may very well be money to be made investing in it but you cannot have a database large enough to make real AI.

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.

--
Add xx to reply

cyclintom

2024-08-22 15:00:28 UTC

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

Zen Cycle

2024-08-22 18:55:06 UTC

Mine works 19 out of 20 times the first try, when it doesn't it's
usually an issue of sweaty fingers trying to open the app during a run
or a ride. It's more likely you have it marginally set up, or maybe
you're just using a cheap POS phone with a low-end display resolution.
Tell ya what, mr "i made $14000 off my investments last month" (no, you
didn't)....buy a better phone.

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.

Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.

Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.

dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

Post by cyclintom
The point is: even with sharply defined boundaries, AI is a failure. Elon Musk owns an AI company and knows how to propagadize to mmake it successful. There may very well be money to be made investing in it but you cannot have a database large enough to make real AI.

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.

--
Add xx to reply

cyclintom

2024-08-22 20:44:15 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used. By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.

As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you? While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for. Fat chance that you would EVER appologize for your constant string of lies.

Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable. You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't. Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Zen Cycle

2024-08-22 21:00:49 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used.

I challenge you to find any word in that article spelled "Recognician"

Post by cyclintom
By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin

Do tell!

Post by cyclintom
and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.

tsk tsk tsk....tommy drunk posting again. 2 sentences, 9 spelling errors.

Post by cyclintom
As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you?

no, 1 1/4% isn't unbelievable. the fact that you have any investments at
all is unbeleiveable.

Post by cyclintom
While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for.

"the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet
Yellen has since appologized for" makes absolutely no sense (more
spelling mistakes notwithstanding)

Post by cyclintom
Fat chance that you would EVER appologize

Apologize is spelled with one 'p'. You did it twice, meaning you think
that's the way it's spelled.

Post by cyclintom
for your constant string of lies.

If you can post proof of a lie, I'll apologize for it.

Post by cyclintom
Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable.

no, it's isn't. It has issues with darker color skin, but it's accurate
enough to use as a security credential.

Post by cyclintom
You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't.

I know vastly more about it than you do, I've shown that with the
explanations of why your finger print ID and voice recognition doesn't work.

Post by cyclintom
Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Who's Janet Jellen?

--
Add xx to reply

AMuzi

2024-08-22 21:33:26 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used. By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.
As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you? While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for. Fat chance that you would EVER appologize for your constant string of lies.
Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable. You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't. Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Must be a conspiracy of worldwide breadth.
Search in DuckDuckGo.com for "Face Recognician" returns:

No results found for "Face Recognician".
Suggestions:
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.

--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

cyclintom

2024-08-26 16:31:17 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used. By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.
As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you? While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for. Fat chance that you would EVER appologize for your constant string of lies.
Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable. You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't. Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Must be a conspiracy of worldwide breadth.
No results found for "Face Recognician".
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew, you're a little out of your leaque. I got thousands of hits including Face Recognician and Facial Recognician. This cannot be used in court as evidence since it is unconstitutional. Remember - you have a right to FACE your accuser. You can not cross examine a piece of software.

Zen Cycle

2024-08-26 22:45:49 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used. By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.
As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you? While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for. Fat chance that you would EVER appologize for your constant string of lies.
Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable. You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't. Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Must be a conspiracy of worldwide breadth.
No results found for "Face Recognician".
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew, you're a little out of your leaque.

I would agree you're in a league of your own. But for some pathetic
dumbass like you to accuse Andrew of 'being out of his league" is the
absolute height if ignorance and arrogance. You really need to apologize
to him.

Post by cyclintom
I got thousands of hits including Face Recognician and Facial Recognician.

That's because it's autocorrecting it for you dumbass.

"Including results for Face Recognition"

Post by AMuzi
This cannot be used in court as evidence since it is unconstitutional.

Yes, it can be used as evidence, and it is used as evidence. Presenting
facial recognition evidence is in no way unconstitutional. If you think
it is, show a link to a court decision that has declared it as such.

Remember - you have a right to FACE your accuser. You can not cross
examine a piece of software.

--
Add xx to reply

cyclintom

2024-08-27 14:41:42 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used. By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.
As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you? While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for. Fat chance that you would EVER appologize for your constant string of lies.
Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable. You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't. Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Must be a conspiracy of worldwide breadth.
No results found for "Face Recognician".
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew, you're a little out of your leaque.

Post by cyclintom
I got thousands of hits including Face Recognician and Facial Recognician.

That's because it's autocorrecting it for you dumbass.
"Including results for Face Recognition"

Post by AMuzi
This cannot be used in court as evidence since it is unconstitutional.

Yes, it can be used as evidence, and it is used as evidence. Presenting
facial recognition evidence is in no way unconstitutional. If you think
it is, show a link to a court decision that has declared it as such.
Remember - you have a right to FACE your accuser. You can not cross
examine a piece of software.
--
Add xx to reply

Unlike you who have written award winning AI software, Andrew is a bicycle shop owner and doesn't understand AI with your and Liebermann's bullshit misinderstandings of it and loud mouth's. You're mnothing more than a two bit phony more thsn willing to talk about things tht are in the news that you have no understanding of.

Tell us what you actually know about AI when you can't even program. Oh, I forget, you claim to be able to program but couldn't understand a program that only blinks lights.

AMuzi

2024-08-27 14:48:52 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used. By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.
As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you? While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for. Fat chance that you would EVER appologize for your constant string of lies.
Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable. You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't. Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Must be a conspiracy of worldwide breadth.
No results found for "Face Recognician".
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew, you're a little out of your leaque.

Post by cyclintom
I got thousands of hits including Face Recognician and Facial Recognician.

That's because it's autocorrecting it for you dumbass.
"Including results for Face Recognition"

Post by AMuzi
This cannot be used in court as evidence since it is unconstitutional.

Yes, it can be used as evidence, and it is used as evidence. Presenting
facial recognition evidence is in no way unconstitutional. If you think
it is, show a link to a court decision that has declared it as such.
Remember - you have a right to FACE your accuser. You can not cross
examine a piece of software.
--
Add xx to reply

Unlike you who have written award winning AI software, Andrew is a bicycle shop owner and doesn't understand AI with your and Liebermann's bullshit misinderstandings of it and loud mouth's. You're mnothing more than a two bit phony more thsn willing to talk about things tht are in the news that you have no understanding of.
Tell us what you actually know about AI when you can't even program. Oh, I forget, you claim to be able to program but couldn't understand a program that only blinks lights.

You might leave me out of your snark rant. Please.

--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

cyclintom

2024-08-27 18:45:50 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used. By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.
As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you? While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for. Fat chance that you would EVER appologize for your constant string of lies.
Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable. You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't. Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Must be a conspiracy of worldwide breadth.
No results found for "Face Recognician".
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew, you're a little out of your leaque.

Post by cyclintom
I got thousands of hits including Face Recognician and Facial Recognician.

That's because it's autocorrecting it for you dumbass.
"Including results for Face Recognition"

Post by AMuzi
This cannot be used in court as evidence since it is unconstitutional.

Yes, it can be used as evidence, and it is used as evidence. Presenting
facial recognition evidence is in no way unconstitutional. If you think
it is, show a link to a court decision that has declared it as such.
Remember - you have a right to FACE your accuser. You can not cross
examine a piece of software.
--
Add xx to reply

Unlike you who have written award winning AI software, Andrew is a bicycle shop owner and doesn't understand AI with your and Liebermann's bullshit misinderstandings of it and loud mouth's. You're mnothing more than a two bit phony more thsn willing to talk about things tht are in the news that you have no understanding of.
Tell us what you actually know about AI when you can't even program. Oh, I forget, you claim to be able to program but couldn't understand a program that only blinks lights.

You might leave me out of your snark rant. Please.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I will, but please don't think that because you read a couple of articles about AI that you know anything about it. All of the articles I've seen could have been written by Flunky. I would hardly call the self driving feature of the Tesla, AI. It IMAGINES the roadway and what it will do. This makes it no better than a fairly new driver - dangerous to others.

AMuzi

2024-08-27 19:12:17 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used. By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.
As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you? While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for. Fat chance that you would EVER appologize for your constant string of lies.
Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable. You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't. Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Must be a conspiracy of worldwide breadth.
No results found for "Face Recognician".
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.

Andrew, you're a little out of your leaque.

Post by cyclintom
I got thousands of hits including Face Recognician and Facial Recognician.

That's because it's autocorrecting it for you dumbass.
"Including results for Face Recognition"

Post by AMuzi
This cannot be used in court as evidence since it is unconstitutional.

Yes, it can be used as evidence, and it is used as evidence. Presenting
facial recognition evidence is in no way unconstitutional. If you think
it is, show a link to a court decision that has declared it as such.
Remember - you have a right to FACE your accuser. You can not cross
examine a piece of software.
--
Add xx to reply

Unlike you who have written award winning AI software, Andrew is a bicycle shop owner and doesn't understand AI with your and Liebermann's bullshit misinderstandings of it and loud mouth's. You're mnothing more than a two bit phony more thsn willing to talk about things tht are in the news that you have no understanding of.
Tell us what you actually know about AI when you can't even program. Oh, I forget, you claim to be able to program but couldn't understand a program that only blinks lights.

You might leave me out of your snark rant. Please.

Did I make some pronouncement about artificial intelligence?

--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

cyclintom

2024-08-27 19:22:03 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used. By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.
As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you? While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for. Fat chance that you would EVER appologize for your constant string of lies.
Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable. You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't. Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Must be a conspiracy of worldwide breadth.
No results found for "Face Recognician".
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.

Andrew, you're a little out of your leaque.

Post by cyclintom
I got thousands of hits including Face Recognician and Facial Recognician.

That's because it's autocorrecting it for you dumbass.
"Including results for Face Recognition"

Post by AMuzi
This cannot be used in court as evidence since it is unconstitutional.

Yes, it can be used as evidence, and it is used as evidence. Presenting
facial recognition evidence is in no way unconstitutional. If you think
it is, show a link to a court decision that has declared it as such.
Remember - you have a right to FACE your accuser. You can not cross
examine a piece of software.
--
Add xx to reply

Unlike you who have written award winning AI software, Andrew is a bicycle shop owner and doesn't understand AI with your and Liebermann's bullshit misinderstandings of it and loud mouth's. You're mnothing more than a two bit phony more thsn willing to talk about things tht are in the news that you have no understanding of.
Tell us what you actually know about AI when you can't even program. Oh, I forget, you claim to be able to program but couldn't understand a program that only blinks lights.

You might leave me out of your snark rant. Please.

Did I make some pronouncement about artificial intelligence?
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Looking back, all of your comments seemed entierly rational. There's so much noise from Liebermann and Flunky, that I must have made a mistake. My appologies.

John B.

2024-08-27 00:18:22 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Face recognician is so reliable that it is not allowed as evidence in any courtroom in the US.

First off, it's Facial Recognition, not face recognician. And no, it
wasn't a typo, you wrote it twice exactly the same way.
Facial recognition software is allowed as evidence in _every_ courtroom
in the US, exactly the opposite of what you claim. This is why
California is only now advancing legislation to limit the criminal
justice system use of facial recognition under Assembly Bill 1814.
Critics say it doesn't go far enough because it still allows facial
recognition to be used as evidence.
https://calmatters.org/economy/technology/2024/06/face-recognition-technology-california/

Post by cyclintom
As for voice recognition I could not get it to work to properly understand "La Vuelra" once in dozens of tries this morning.

Maybe you should have tried it before you were drunk. Voice recognition
works best when you aren't slurring your speech.
Of course, knowing you, what you were probably trying to find was "La
Vuelta", but as usual you misspelled it and aren't bright enough to
figure out how to enable the spell checker (Re: "Artificiqal"). And then
it never occurred to you that you were trying to use a spanish phrase on
a system set to understand American English.
dumb, dumb, dumb, tommy

I'll give you some credibility on the issue when you can back up your
asinine claims with credible references. Learning how to spell
'artificial' would be a plus.
--
Add xx to reply

Every day you insist on showing what a complete loser you are.

And everyday you insist on showing what a woefully misinformed idiot you
are.
--
Add xx to reply

Again and again, you present your stupidity to the universe. After telling us that it isn't Face Recognician (which is the proper term) you cite an article in which the term face recognician is used. By the wsy twinky, face recognician being used illegally in California is no surprise. We need only remembr the stupid things you've ssid time and agaoin and remember that Calfornia is now a state full of Flunkies whose Governor Gavin Loathsome drove away all of the sane people over the years. You woulde br right at home here but you vouldn't find a job since they don't hire Flunky's.
As for investment returns - Having a 1 1/4th% return on my investments seems too large to you? While at the same time the market is tracking the huge investments that your queen Janet Yellen has since appologized for. Fat chance that you would EVER appologize for your constant string of lies.
Face Recognician software is at best extremely unreliable. You show to everyone that you don't have the slightest understanding of AI and then claim that I don't. Did Janet Jellen tell you that?

Must be a conspiracy of worldwide breadth.
No results found for "Face Recognician".
Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Andrew, you're a little out of your leaque. I got thousands

of hits including Face Recognician and Facial Recognician. This
cannot be used in court as evidence since it is unconstitutional.
Remember - you have a right to FACE your accuser. You can not cross
examine a piece of software.

Strange isn't it? Maybe because you live in California - the land of
the Ruts and Nuts?

Anyway, as Andrew reports I tried hunting for "Face Recognician"...
Zero hits.

Then I tried spelling the term correctly,
"Face recognition" and got many hits.

I like "down home country" music and I came across one yesterday
evening that describes you exactly.. "The biggest fool that ever hit
the big time. And all I got do is act naturally..."

--
Cheers,

John B.

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-22 19:56:48 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

I don't use my thumb for biometric authentication on my smartphone,
laptop, or flash drive (Verbatim). Instead, I program the fingerprint
reader to authenticate using my index and middle fingers, on both
hands. (It's not called a thumbprint reader). There are multiple
reasons for not using the thumbs. Using the thumbs produces a general
lack of reliability due to the relatively small working area on the
sensor, compared to the rather large thumb area. Finding the correct
location on your thumb is awkward and difficult. Little wonder your
batting average is so low.

Of the various fingerprint readers I use, the one in my Moto G Power
(2020) is the one I use the most. I would estimate that I use at
least 70 times per day when working. The sensor is on the back of the
phone, so I just wrap my fingers around the phone and authenticate. No
need to turn the phone on in advance because the fingerprint sensor
detects my finger (from it temperature) and turns the phone on
automagically.

The reason why I have 2 fingers on each hand programmed is because I
sometimes it doesn't work very well when my hands are dirty. It's
also handy to be able to use either hand.

The only time it hasn't worked at all was when I was cleaning chainsaw
parts with solvent and leaky latex gloves. The solvent (acetone?)
wiped out most of my fingerprints. None of my fingerprints would
work. I tried washing and drying my hands, but the fingerprints
remained hidden. I switched to password security until my
fingerprints began reappearing. I had to reprogram the phone with all
4 fingerprints every 2 days for about 10 days when the fingerprints
finally stopped changing. Hint: Don't do that.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

AMuzi

2024-08-22 20:34:49 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

I don't use my thumb for biometric authentication on my smartphone,
laptop, or flash drive (Verbatim). Instead, I program the fingerprint
reader to authenticate using my index and middle fingers, on both
hands. (It's not called a thumbprint reader). There are multiple
reasons for not using the thumbs. Using the thumbs produces a general
lack of reliability due to the relatively small working area on the
sensor, compared to the rather large thumb area. Finding the correct
location on your thumb is awkward and difficult. Little wonder your
batting average is so low.
Of the various fingerprint readers I use, the one in my Moto G Power
(2020) is the one I use the most. I would estimate that I use at
least 70 times per day when working. The sensor is on the back of the
phone, so I just wrap my fingers around the phone and authenticate. No
need to turn the phone on in advance because the fingerprint sensor
detects my finger (from it temperature) and turns the phone on
automagically.
The reason why I have 2 fingers on each hand programmed is because I
sometimes it doesn't work very well when my hands are dirty. It's
also handy to be able to use either hand.
The only time it hasn't worked at all was when I was cleaning chainsaw
parts with solvent and leaky latex gloves. The solvent (acetone?)
wiped out most of my fingerprints. None of my fingerprints would
work. I tried washing and drying my hands, but the fingerprints
remained hidden. I switched to password security until my
fingerprints began reappearing. I had to reprogram the phone with all
4 fingerprints every 2 days for about 10 days when the fingerprints
finally stopped changing. Hint: Don't do that.

I have no experience there, but is that because your fingers
were exceptionally clean, such that an optical reader
couldn't discern the pattern?

--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

cyclintom

2024-08-22 20:53:37 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

I don't use my thumb for biometric authentication on my smartphone,
laptop, or flash drive (Verbatim). Instead, I program the fingerprint
reader to authenticate using my index and middle fingers, on both
hands. (It's not called a thumbprint reader). There are multiple
reasons for not using the thumbs. Using the thumbs produces a general
lack of reliability due to the relatively small working area on the
sensor, compared to the rather large thumb area. Finding the correct
location on your thumb is awkward and difficult. Little wonder your
batting average is so low.
Of the various fingerprint readers I use, the one in my Moto G Power
(2020) is the one I use the most. I would estimate that I use at
least 70 times per day when working. The sensor is on the back of the
phone, so I just wrap my fingers around the phone and authenticate. No
need to turn the phone on in advance because the fingerprint sensor
detects my finger (from it temperature) and turns the phone on
automagically.
The reason why I have 2 fingers on each hand programmed is because I
sometimes it doesn't work very well when my hands are dirty. It's
also handy to be able to use either hand.
The only time it hasn't worked at all was when I was cleaning chainsaw
parts with solvent and leaky latex gloves. The solvent (acetone?)
wiped out most of my fingerprints. None of my fingerprints would
work. I tried washing and drying my hands, but the fingerprints
remained hidden. I switched to password security until my
fingerprints began reappearing. I had to reprogram the phone with all
4 fingerprints every 2 days for about 10 days when the fingerprints
finally stopped changing. Hint: Don't do that.

I have no experience there, but is that because your fingers
were exceptionally clean, such that an optical reader
couldn't discern the pattern?
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index finger which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest mistplacement or turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't "loosen" up the recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.

People do not understand how it works. And Elon is a salesman more than an inventor now.

Zen Cycle

2024-08-22 21:03:23 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

I don't use my thumb for biometric authentication on my smartphone,
laptop, or flash drive (Verbatim). Instead, I program the fingerprint
reader to authenticate using my index and middle fingers, on both
hands. (It's not called a thumbprint reader). There are multiple
reasons for not using the thumbs. Using the thumbs produces a general
lack of reliability due to the relatively small working area on the
sensor, compared to the rather large thumb area. Finding the correct
location on your thumb is awkward and difficult. Little wonder your
batting average is so low.
Of the various fingerprint readers I use, the one in my Moto G Power
(2020) is the one I use the most. I would estimate that I use at
least 70 times per day when working. The sensor is on the back of the
phone, so I just wrap my fingers around the phone and authenticate. No
need to turn the phone on in advance because the fingerprint sensor
detects my finger (from it temperature) and turns the phone on
automagically.
The reason why I have 2 fingers on each hand programmed is because I
sometimes it doesn't work very well when my hands are dirty. It's
also handy to be able to use either hand.
The only time it hasn't worked at all was when I was cleaning chainsaw
parts with solvent and leaky latex gloves. The solvent (acetone?)
wiped out most of my fingerprints. None of my fingerprints would
work. I tried washing and drying my hands, but the fingerprints
remained hidden. I switched to password security until my
fingerprints began reappearing. I had to reprogram the phone with all
4 fingerprints every 2 days for about 10 days when the fingerprints
finally stopped changing. Hint: Don't do that.

I have no experience there, but is that because your fingers
were exceptionally clean, such that an optical reader
couldn't discern the pattern?
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

It's really not that difficult if you do it correctly - hence, tommy's
issues

Post by cyclintom
And Elon is a salesman more than an inventor now.

yup, snake oil, just like his new best friend trump

--
Add xx to reply

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-23 00:14:18 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index finger which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest mistplacement or turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't "loosen" up the recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.

Mine fingerprint reader works just fine at any angle.

Last time I checked, you have a Samsung SM-A516V phone (also known as
the Galaxy A51 5G UW). It has a fingerprint sensor behind the screen
which uses a laser scanner.

If you're having fingerprint recognition problems, it MIGHT be becuase
the fingerprint sensor needs calibration. Because Samsung has not
issued an official procedure, most of the solutions offered involve
clearing the biometric data, and the YouTube videos I've watch are
either fake or garbage, I'm not going to offer you a solution. This
message is just to inform you that there might be a problem with your
phone.

Of course, you're going to do something else, not do anything, ignore
my advice, claim that you no longer own an A51, or scream that I
trashed your phone.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

zen cycle

2024-08-23 09:32:16 UTC

Mine fingerprint reader works just fine at any angle.
Last time I checked, you have a Samsung SM-A516V phone (also known as
the Galaxy A51 5G UW). It has a fingerprint sensor behind the screen
which uses a laser scanner.
If you're having fingerprint recognition problems, it MIGHT be becuase
the fingerprint sensor needs calibration. Because Samsung has not
issued an official procedure, most of the solutions offered involve
clearing the biometric data, and the YouTube videos I've watch are
either fake or garbage, I'm not going to offer you a solution. This
message is just to inform you that there might be a problem with your
phone.
Of course, you're going to do something else, not do anything, ignore
my advice, claim that you no longer own an A51, or scream that I
trashed your phone.

Actually I used my superior hacking skills* to infect his phone with
malware (not really) that corrupts the fingerprint scanner app. I did it
around the time I hacked into his email and hacked into the Google Group
servers to change his posts (not really), he was too dumb to note the
coincidence.

*which tommy insists that I have while at the same time insisting I know
nothing about programming

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-23 00:48:25 UTC

I haven't looked into exactly how it works. But my experience with it
(nearly five years now with this phone) is that it does work, it's
_extremely_ reliable, and Tom's "slightest misplacement" claim is his
usual ignorant bullshit.

Sorry to be that harsh, but it's true.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Roger Merriman

2024-08-23 10:34:56 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index finger
which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest mistplacement or
turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't "loosen" up the
recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.
People do not understand how it works.

Only times it doesn’t I find iPhone SE 2/3gen is in truly biblical wet
conditions but wipe my hand and it’s good to go!

Roger Merriman

cyclintom

2024-08-26 15:11:40 UTC

What phone and model do you have?

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-26 18:58:56 UTC

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old

--
- Frank Krygowski

cyclintom

2024-08-27 19:14:30 UTC

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old
--
- Frank Krygowski

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it? Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes. Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling us that yours works 100% of the time?

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-27 20:01:37 UTC

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old
--
- Frank Krygowski

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

Assumption, the mother of all screwups. What's a fingerprint "spot"?
The Motorola "M" in the photo on the back of the phone is the
fingerprint sensor:
<Loading Image...

>
It's the same as my Moto G Power 2020.

Post by cyclintom
Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes.

08/03/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cJi96AJ2A3k/m/JEyDC0TDBgAJ>
"I'll bet that there wasn't anything I didn't do wrong"

Post by cyclintom
Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling us that yours works 100% of the time?

I'll let Frank speak for himself. On my current phone, the
fingerprint reader fails about 10% of the time, usually because my
hands were dirty, wet or swollen (from splitting firewood with a
splitting axe). I can usually get it to read by wiping or switching
hands.

I don't own any phones that have a fingerprint reader behind the
screen (like your Samsung A51). I can't pass judgment on the
reliability of such readers.

There was a recent article in Wired Magazine on the topic. It's
behind a paywall that lets you read a few articles. Delete the
cookies that belong to Wired if it demands money to read the article:

"Struggling to Unlock Your Phone? You Might Have Lost Your
Fingerprints"
<https://www.wired.com/story/why-you-might-be-losing-your-fingerprints/>
"The absence of these identifying marks, which can be the result of
excessive typing, manual work, chemotherapy, or sports, is becoming
more of an issue in the age of biometrics."

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

John B.

2024-08-28 01:23:56 UTC

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old
--
- Frank Krygowski

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

Assumption, the mother of all screwups. What's a fingerprint "spot"?
The Motorola "M" in the photo on the back of the phone is the
<https://i.pcmag.com/imagery/reviews/00Lrv3J0jkpGC8gAEeX1hkm-7.v_1569469974.jpg>
It's the same as my Moto G Power 2020.

Post by cyclintom
Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes.

08/03/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cJi96AJ2A3k/m/JEyDC0TDBgAJ>
"I'll bet that there wasn't anything I didn't do wrong"

Post by cyclintom
Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling us that yours works 100% of the time?

I'll let Frank speak for himself. On my current phone, the
fingerprint reader fails about 10% of the time, usually because my
hands were dirty, wet or swollen (from splitting firewood with a
splitting axe). I can usually get it to read by wiping or switching
hands.
I don't own any phones that have a fingerprint reader behind the
screen (like your Samsung A51). I can't pass judgment on the
reliability of such readers.
There was a recent article in Wired Magazine on the topic. It's
behind a paywall that lets you read a few articles. Delete the
"Struggling to Unlock Your Phone? You Might Have Lost Your
Fingerprints"
<https://www.wired.com/story/why-you-might-be-losing-your-fingerprints/>
"The absence of these identifying marks, which can be the result of
excessive typing, manual work, chemotherapy, or sports, is becoming
more of an issue in the age of biometrics."

The thing I don't understand is, why use an "anything" reader on a
hand phone? I've been using hand phones since they were small enough
to be carried in one hand and I've never used a
thumb/hand/nose/anything/ reader and even more telling I've never seen
anyone else use one... in at least 4 different countries.

--
Cheers,

John B.

Roger Merriman

2024-08-28 17:00:07 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index
finger which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest
mistplacement or turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't
"loosen" up the recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.
People do not understand how it works.

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old
--
- Frank Krygowski

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

Post by cyclintom
Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes.

08/03/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cJi96AJ2A3k/m/JEyDC0TDBgAJ>
"I'll bet that there wasn't anything I didn't do wrong"

Post by cyclintom
Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling
us that yours works 100% of the time?

I'll let Frank speak for himself. On my current phone, the
fingerprint reader fails about 10% of the time, usually because my
hands were dirty, wet or swollen (from splitting firewood with a
splitting axe). I can usually get it to read by wiping or switching
hands.
I don't own any phones that have a fingerprint reader behind the
screen (like your Samsung A51). I can't pass judgment on the
reliability of such readers.
There was a recent article in Wired Magazine on the topic. It's
behind a paywall that lets you read a few articles. Delete the
"Struggling to Unlock Your Phone? You Might Have Lost Your
Fingerprints"
<https://www.wired.com/story/why-you-might-be-losing-your-fingerprints/>
"The absence of these identifying marks, which can be the result of
excessive typing, manual work, chemotherapy, or sports, is becoming
more of an issue in the age of biometrics."

Mobile phones this century are generally computers and as such have data
and so on.

Roger Merriman

cyclintom

2024-08-28 19:48:38 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index
finger which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest
mistplacement or turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't
"loosen" up the recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.
People do not understand how it works.

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old
--
- Frank Krygowski

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

Post by cyclintom
Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes.

08/03/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cJi96AJ2A3k/m/JEyDC0TDBgAJ>
"I'll bet that there wasn't anything I didn't do wrong"

Post by cyclintom
Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling
us that yours works 100% of the time?

I'll let Frank speak for himself. On my current phone, the
fingerprint reader fails about 10% of the time, usually because my
hands were dirty, wet or swollen (from splitting firewood with a
splitting axe). I can usually get it to read by wiping or switching
hands.
I don't own any phones that have a fingerprint reader behind the
screen (like your Samsung A51). I can't pass judgment on the
reliability of such readers.
There was a recent article in Wired Magazine on the topic. It's
behind a paywall that lets you read a few articles. Delete the
"Struggling to Unlock Your Phone? You Might Have Lost Your
Fingerprints"
<https://www.wired.com/story/why-you-might-be-losing-your-fingerprints/>
"The absence of these identifying marks, which can be the result of
excessive typing, manual work, chemotherapy, or sports, is becoming
more of an issue in the age of biometrics."

Mobile phones this century are generally computers and as such have data
and so on.
Roger Merriman

John worked what was essentially manual labor. He never had any technical training of any kind. Common enough in the military. His job after the military was the same thing - one of the military subcontractors that cleans things on foreign bases. - cleaning the toilets and restocking them, sweeping the runways, perhaps maintaining the power supplies. This is largely fueling the generators since the generators themselves are maintained by the factory reps.

I appreciate that he has some interest in the group since long ago he rode, but he says an awful lot of things that he doesn't know about.

John B.

2024-08-29 00:50:41 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index
finger which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest
mistplacement or turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't
"loosen" up the recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.
People do not understand how it works.

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old
--
- Frank Krygowski

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

Post by cyclintom
Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes.

08/03/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cJi96AJ2A3k/m/JEyDC0TDBgAJ>
"I'll bet that there wasn't anything I didn't do wrong"

Post by cyclintom
Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling
us that yours works 100% of the time?

I'll let Frank speak for himself. On my current phone, the
fingerprint reader fails about 10% of the time, usually because my
hands were dirty, wet or swollen (from splitting firewood with a
splitting axe). I can usually get it to read by wiping or switching
hands.
I don't own any phones that have a fingerprint reader behind the
screen (like your Samsung A51). I can't pass judgment on the
reliability of such readers.
There was a recent article in Wired Magazine on the topic. It's
behind a paywall that lets you read a few articles. Delete the
"Struggling to Unlock Your Phone? You Might Have Lost Your
Fingerprints"
<https://www.wired.com/story/why-you-might-be-losing-your-fingerprints/>
"The absence of these identifying marks, which can be the result of
excessive typing, manual work, chemotherapy, or sports, is becoming
more of an issue in the age of biometrics."

Mobile phones this century are generally computers and as such have data
and so on.
Roger Merriman

Yup :-) I've got one for making calls and a second for reading books
:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

Roger Merriman

2024-08-29 12:47:22 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index
finger which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest
mistplacement or turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't
"loosen" up the recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.
People do not understand how it works.

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old
--
- Frank Krygowski

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

Post by cyclintom
Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes.

08/03/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cJi96AJ2A3k/m/JEyDC0TDBgAJ>
"I'll bet that there wasn't anything I didn't do wrong"

Post by cyclintom
Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling
us that yours works 100% of the time?

I'll let Frank speak for himself. On my current phone, the
fingerprint reader fails about 10% of the time, usually because my
hands were dirty, wet or swollen (from splitting firewood with a
splitting axe). I can usually get it to read by wiping or switching
hands.
I don't own any phones that have a fingerprint reader behind the
screen (like your Samsung A51). I can't pass judgment on the
reliability of such readers.
There was a recent article in Wired Magazine on the topic. It's
behind a paywall that lets you read a few articles. Delete the
"Struggling to Unlock Your Phone? You Might Have Lost Your
Fingerprints"
<https://www.wired.com/story/why-you-might-be-losing-your-fingerprints/>
"The absence of these identifying marks, which can be the result of
excessive typing, manual work, chemotherapy, or sports, is becoming
more of an issue in the age of biometrics."

Mobile phones this century are generally computers and as such have data
and so on.
Roger Merriman

Yup :-) I've got one for making calls and a second for reading books
:-)

Dumb phones are making a minor comeback Nokia is producing the 3210 of my
youth! Though to be honest I do like smart phones and their convenience
such as knowing bus and train times and delays and so on.

Roger Merriman

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-29 17:10:55 UTC

Post by Roger Merriman
I do like smart phones and their convenience
such as knowing bus and train times and delays and so on.

I use my smart phone a lot as an organizer device. But regarding the
"convenience," the last two restaurants or pubs I went into had no
printed beer menu. Instead a little stand-up placard on the table held a
QR code. "Click here to see our beer choices."

To me, focusing, photographing, opening a link and downloading then
opening a file is a hell of a lot less convenient than looking at a
printed menu.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Roger Merriman

2024-08-29 19:51:46 UTC

Post by Roger Merriman
I do like smart phones and their convenience
such as knowing bus and train times and delays and so on.

I use my smart phone a lot as an organizer device.

More so my iPad note I have limited memory so organising and so on it how
digital devices give appearances of capability!

Post by Frank Krygowski
But regarding the
"convenience," the last two restaurants or pubs I went into had no
printed beer menu. Instead a little stand-up placard on the table held a
QR code. "Click here to see our beer choices."
To me, focusing, photographing, opening a link and downloading then
opening a file is a hell of a lot less convenient than looking at a
printed menu.

Oh that’s purely for their benefit! I ignore such things and just ask get
menu if someplace makes it difficult for me to spend my money with them…

Roger Merriman

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-30 00:44:25 UTC

Post by Roger Merriman
I do like smart phones and their convenience
such as knowing bus and train times and delays and so on.

I use my smart phone a lot as an organizer device.

More so my iPad note I have limited memory so organising and so on it how
digital devices give appearances of capability!

Oh that’s purely for their benefit! I ignore such things and just ask get
menu if someplace makes it difficult for me to spend my money with them…

Yes, absolutely. Last Sunday the cute young waitress became a bit
flustered. "I know we have on around here somewhere..."

--
- Frank Krygowski

Roger Merriman

2024-08-30 13:38:35 UTC

Post by Roger Merriman
I do like smart phones and their convenience
such as knowing bus and train times and delays and so on.

I use my smart phone a lot as an organizer device.

More so my iPad note I have limited memory so organising and so on it how
digital devices give appearances of capability!

Oh that’s purely for their benefit! I ignore such things and just ask get
menu if someplace makes it difficult for me to spend my money with them…

Yes, absolutely. Last Sunday the cute young waitress became a bit
flustered. "I know we have on around here somewhere..."

Had a bit of that during lockdowns and so on, but is mostly stopped or
rather been an add on feature, ie way to order from your table if one
wishes at pubs and so on.

But as the only way didn’t seem to work.

Roger Merriman

cyclintom

2024-08-29 21:57:24 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index
finger which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest
mistplacement or turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't
"loosen" up the recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.
People do not understand how it works.

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old
--
- Frank Krygowski

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

Post by cyclintom
Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes.

08/03/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cJi96AJ2A3k/m/JEyDC0TDBgAJ>
"I'll bet that there wasn't anything I didn't do wrong"

Post by cyclintom
Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling
us that yours works 100% of the time?

I'll let Frank speak for himself. On my current phone, the
fingerprint reader fails about 10% of the time, usually because my
hands were dirty, wet or swollen (from splitting firewood with a
splitting axe). I can usually get it to read by wiping or switching
hands.
I don't own any phones that have a fingerprint reader behind the
screen (like your Samsung A51). I can't pass judgment on the
reliability of such readers.
There was a recent article in Wired Magazine on the topic. It's
behind a paywall that lets you read a few articles. Delete the
"Struggling to Unlock Your Phone? You Might Have Lost Your
Fingerprints"
<https://www.wired.com/story/why-you-might-be-losing-your-fingerprints/>
"The absence of these identifying marks, which can be the result of
excessive typing, manual work, chemotherapy, or sports, is becoming
more of an issue in the age of biometrics."

Mobile phones this century are generally computers and as such have data
and so on.
Roger Merriman

Yup :-) I've got one for making calls and a second for reading books
:-)

I see som4e real advantages with smart phones but what they are doing to society may be far worse than the convenience. While at the coffee shop TWO people had earplugs and were talking out loud for over 1/2 hour. Now WHO DOES THAT? Smart phones aren't for social interaction. They are for messaging or phoning someone no talking aobut nothing at all for over 1/2 hour while the guy at the next table is doing the same thing!

AMuzi

2024-08-29 22:20:46 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index
finger which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest
mistplacement or turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't
"loosen" up the recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.
People do not understand how it works.

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old
--
- Frank Krygowski

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

Post by cyclintom
Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes.

08/03/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cJi96AJ2A3k/m/JEyDC0TDBgAJ>
"I'll bet that there wasn't anything I didn't do wrong"

Post by cyclintom
Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling
us that yours works 100% of the time?

I'll let Frank speak for himself. On my current phone, the
fingerprint reader fails about 10% of the time, usually because my
hands were dirty, wet or swollen (from splitting firewood with a
splitting axe). I can usually get it to read by wiping or switching
hands.
I don't own any phones that have a fingerprint reader behind the
screen (like your Samsung A51). I can't pass judgment on the
reliability of such readers.
There was a recent article in Wired Magazine on the topic. It's
behind a paywall that lets you read a few articles. Delete the
"Struggling to Unlock Your Phone? You Might Have Lost Your
Fingerprints"
<https://www.wired.com/story/why-you-might-be-losing-your-fingerprints/>
"The absence of these identifying marks, which can be the result of
excessive typing, manual work, chemotherapy, or sports, is becoming
more of an issue in the age of biometrics."

Mobile phones this century are generally computers and as such have data
and so on.
Roger Merriman

Yup :-) I've got one for making calls and a second for reading books
:-)

I happen to agree on that point.

If you do feel that way why not toss the damned thing?

--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-28 19:07:38 UTC

Post by John B.
The thing I don't understand is, why use an "anything" reader on a
hand phone? I've been using hand phones since they were small enough
to be carried in one hand and I've never used a
thumb/hand/nose/anything/ reader and even more telling I've never seen
anyone else use one... in at least 4 different countries.

I appreciate your retro-grouchiness, John. But:

I didn't care one way or another about the fingerprint reader that came
with my phone. I chose this model phone for other reasons. But having
lived with it for ~5 years, I like the print reader quite a lot. When I
grab the phone out of my pocket or off my desk, the reader is much
easier to locate than the power switch. My finger lands right on it with
my normal grip. And as I've said (and contrary to Tom's claims) it seems
to work very close to 100% of the time.

Incidentally, you wouldn't "see" me using the reader. It takes no
thought at all, since it scans the tip of the index finger that's
naturally at the back of my phone when I hold it.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-29 17:42:37 UTC

A fingerprint reader is quite convenient:
- I use the fingerprint reader as a substitute for the phone on/off
button.
- Some web sites use the fingerprint reader to speed up a web login
process. Instead of a login, password, 2FA, wait for the text
message, and type in the 2FA number, using the fingerprint reader does
it all in one action. I use it for login to various medical web
sites, where I usually need to login and check something in a hurry.

Unfortunately, fingerprint readers are far from perfect:
"Your Fingerprint Can Be Hacked For $5. Heres How."
<https://blog.kraken.com/product/security/your-fingerprint-can-be-hacked-for-5-heres-how>

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-30 00:40:47 UTC

Yes, that's an advantage I've used quite a lot.

Post by Jeff Liebermann
"Your Fingerprint Can Be Hacked For $5. Here’s How."
<https://blog.kraken.com/product/security/your-fingerprint-can-be-hacked-for-5-heres-how>

Like most "Danger!" warnings, I think that one is overblown. The hacker
would have to observe a clean fingerprint, would have to know it's from
the proper finger, then go though a multi-step process (Photograph,
process in Photoshop, 3-d print on acetate, re-cast using wood glue) to
get something that might work, might not work.

I can see the fictional characters in "Mission Impossible" doing it to
thwart an evil genius preparing for world domination. I doubt anyone
would be using it in real life to access my medical records.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-31 19:28:03 UTC

On Thu, 29 Aug 2024 20:40:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Yes, that's an advantage I've used quite a lot.

Post by Jeff Liebermann
"Your Fingerprint Can Be Hacked For $5. Heres How."
<https://blog.kraken.com/product/security/your-fingerprint-can-be-hacked-for-5-heres-how>

The aforementioned complicated process has the advantage of not
requiring a mold to be made from the victims fingers. The fingerprint
image lifted from a glass or plastic object is sufficient.

Also, it's fairly simple (but expensive) to build a 3D finger print
scanner:
<https://3d.idintl.com/explore-3d-fingerprinting/>
and print the results with a 3D printer.
<https://3dprint.com/271540/d-defcon-fooling-biometric-sensors-using-3d-printed-fake-fingerprints/>
The behind the display fingerprint scanners use multiple cameras and
3D scanning. I haven't had any luck with those:

"Apple invents a new Approach to Touch ID by using Multiple Cameras
under the Display to capture 3D Fingerprint Data"
<https://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2018/08/apple-invents-a-new-approach-to-touch-id-by-using-multiple-cameras-under-the-display-to-capture-3d-fingerprint-data.html>

Post by Frank Krygowski
I can see the fictional characters in "Mission Impossible" doing it to
thwart an evil genius preparing for world domination. I doubt anyone
would be using it in real life to access my medical records.

Not a problem. There seems to be an endless supply of evil geniuses
and overly curious teenagers who can break into anything.

If I wanted your medical records, I would simply go to the appropriate
department at the hospital and ask for a copy of your medical records.
That last time I did that for obtaining some test results, all they
asked for was my date of birth (because they were in a hurry).

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

cyclintom

2024-11-03 22:57:34 UTC

- I use the fingerprint reader as a substitute for the phone on/off
button.
- Some web sites use the fingerprint reader to speed up a web login
process. Instead of a login, password, 2FA, wait for the text
message, and type in the 2FA number, using the fingerprint reader does
it all in one action. I use it for login to various medical web
sites, where I usually need to login and check something in a hurry.
"Your Fingerprint Can Be Hacked For $5. Here?s How."
<https://blog.kraken.com/product/security/your-fingerprint-can-be-hacked-for-5-heres-how>
--
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

I am really impressed that you even pretend to know what AI means.

cyclintom

2024-08-28 19:40:26 UTC

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old
--
- Frank Krygowski

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

Post by cyclintom
Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes.

08/03/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cJi96AJ2A3k/m/JEyDC0TDBgAJ>
"I'll bet that there wasn't anything I didn't do wrong"

Post by cyclintom
Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling us that yours works 100% of the time?

I'll let Frank speak for himself. On my current phone, the
fingerprint reader fails about 10% of the time, usually because my
hands were dirty, wet or swollen (from splitting firewood with a
splitting axe). I can usually get it to read by wiping or switching
hands.
I don't own any phones that have a fingerprint reader behind the
screen (like your Samsung A51). I can't pass judgment on the
reliability of such readers.
There was a recent article in Wired Magazine on the topic. It's
behind a paywall that lets you read a few articles. Delete the
"Struggling to Unlock Your Phone? You Might Have Lost Your
Fingerprints"
<https://www.wired.com/story/why-you-might-be-losing-your-fingerprints/>
"The absence of these identifying marks, which can be the result of
excessive typing, manual work, chemotherapy, or sports, is becoming
more of an issue in the age of biometrics."
--
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Stop citing things, you computer is contaminated and Bit Defender won't let any of your citations through because of that. This is unique to your postings. Andrews and Catrike and Shadows have no problems. ALL of your citations except your reference to pictures of Facebook are that way. And Facebook wipes your contamination off for legal reasons. Do you feel good refering Flunky to viruses? I do.

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-28 00:25:45 UTC

Post by Frank Krygowski
I haven't looked into exactly how it works. But my experience with it
(nearly five years now with this phone) is that it does work, it's
_extremely_ reliable, and Tom's "slightest misplacement" claim is his
usual ignorant bullshit.
Sorry to be that harsh, but it's true.

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

The sensor is on the back of the phone. It's about 11mm diameter,
slightly recessed so it's easy to feel.

Post by cyclintom
Since I knoiw how the soifteare works, I cannot imagine how it would not make mistakes. Mine doesn't read my fingerprint over half of the time. You're telling us that yours works 100% of the time?

I just tested it about 10 times for you. It worked properly every time.

In addition to my normal touching of the sensor, I tried rotating the
position of my finger, testing it 90 degrees, 180 degrees and 270
degrees away from normal. All those worked perfectly.

If I used the edge of the finger rather than centering my finger as
normal, it gives a "fingerprint not recognized" message in a small font.
It does the same with any other of my fingers. But even if the
legitimate finger is not well centered, it seems to work, as long as the
dead center of my fingerprint is within the sensing area.

--
- Frank Krygowski

cyclintom

2024-08-28 19:31:52 UTC

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

The sensor is on the back of the phone. It's about 11mm diameter,
slightly recessed so it's easy to feel.

I just tested it about 10 times for you. It worked properly every time.
In addition to my normal touching of the sensor, I tried rotating the
position of my finger, testing it 90 degrees, 180 degrees and 270
degrees away from normal. All those worked perfectly.
If I used the edge of the finger rather than centering my finger as
normal, it gives a "fingerprint not recognized" message in a small font.
It does the same with any other of my fingers. But even if the
legitimate finger is not well centered, it seems to work, as long as the
dead center of my fingerprint is within the sensing area.
--
- Frank Krygowski

Mine is so sensitive that if I touch my chain (the wax contains a graphite substance as well as Teflon) that it won't regognize my fingerprint at all. I see that your phone limits the area as wekk but that you always hold the phone in the same way so that it gets the programmed section of your fingerprint. The rotation properrties are insignificant as long as the proper part of the fingerprint is in the area,

Though I am a bit surprised that they would have the computational power to recognize a print in a rapid fashion. This suggests that whatever phone you're using is probably a 64 bit uprocessor. And with a fast clock.

Looking that phone up it appears to have over a gigabit clock and be a 32 bit word. This would mean that funny looking button on the back must have had a complicated set-up procedure so that it racognizes several parts of your fingerprint and will turn on to any of them, That isn't necessarily a good programming practive.

Even with clean hands mine seldom woirks within three tries. But I programmed it to work with the unique swurls so that the phone can't be hacked. (But then there is a back-door that is hackable.)

AMuzi

2024-08-28 19:37:57 UTC

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

The sensor is on the back of the phone. It's about 11mm diameter,
slightly recessed so it's easy to feel.

I just tested it about 10 times for you. It worked properly every time.
In addition to my normal touching of the sensor, I tried rotating the
position of my finger, testing it 90 degrees, 180 degrees and 270
degrees away from normal. All those worked perfectly.
If I used the edge of the finger rather than centering my finger as
normal, it gives a "fingerprint not recognized" message in a small font.
It does the same with any other of my fingers. But even if the
legitimate finger is not well centered, it seems to work, as long as the
dead center of my fingerprint is within the sensing area.
--
- Frank Krygowski

Mine is so sensitive that if I touch my chain (the wax contains a graphite substance as well as Teflon) that it won't regognize my fingerprint at all. I see that your phone limits the area as wekk but that you always hold the phone in the same way so that it gets the programmed section of your fingerprint. The rotation properrties are insignificant as long as the proper part of the fingerprint is in the area,
Though I am a bit surprised that they would have the computational power to recognize a print in a rapid fashion. This suggests that whatever phone you're using is probably a 64 bit uprocessor. And with a fast clock.
Looking that phone up it appears to have over a gigabit clock and be a 32 bit word. This would mean that funny looking button on the back must have had a complicated set-up procedure so that it racognizes several parts of your fingerprint and will turn on to any of them, That isn't necessarily a good programming practive.
Even with clean hands mine seldom woirks within three tries. But I programmed it to work with the unique swurls so that the phone can't be hacked. (But then there is a back-door that is hackable.)

WTF?

I suppose we don't need AI generated word salad since we
have your posts.

--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

cyclintom

2024-08-28 19:58:04 UTC

What phone and model do you have?

Motorola G7 Power, five years old

I sssume that you have a fingerprint spot on it?

The sensor is on the back of the phone. It's about 11mm diameter,
slightly recessed so it's easy to feel.

I just tested it about 10 times for you. It worked properly every time.
In addition to my normal touching of the sensor, I tried rotating the
position of my finger, testing it 90 degrees, 180 degrees and 270
degrees away from normal. All those worked perfectly.
If I used the edge of the finger rather than centering my finger as
normal, it gives a "fingerprint not recognized" message in a small font.
It does the same with any other of my fingers. But even if the
legitimate finger is not well centered, it seems to work, as long as the
dead center of my fingerprint is within the sensing area.
--
- Frank Krygowski

Mine is so sensitive that if I touch my chain (the wax contains a graphite substance as well as Teflon) that it won't regognize my fingerprint at all. I see that your phone limits the area as wekk but that you always hold the phone in the same way so that it gets the programmed section of your fingerprint. The rotation properrties are insignificant as long as the proper part of the fingerprint is in the area,
Though I am a bit surprised that they would have the computational power to recognize a print in a rapid fashion. This suggests that whatever phone you're using is probably a 64 bit uprocessor. And with a fast clock.
Looking that phone up it appears to have over a gigabit clock and be a 32 bit word. This would mean that funny looking button on the back must have had a complicated set-up procedure so that it racognizes several parts of your fingerprint and will turn on to any of them, That isn't necessarily a good programming practive.
Even with clean hands mine seldom woirks within three tries. But I programmed it to work with the unique swurls so that the phone can't be hacked. (But then there is a back-door that is hackable.)

WTF?
I suppose we don't need AI generated word salad since we
have your posts.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

I don't know what that is supposed to mean. I do know that AI is onoly as relieable as its knowledge base which it extremely limited. The Tesla self driving feature uses BEST GUESS. Are you willing to bet your life on best guess? Likewise, the fingerprint detector on my Android doesn't work, well over half the time, so they install a BACK DOOR so that you still have access to the phone. IF your phone does detect fingerprints all of the time I would be suspicious that it really isn't actually detecting your fingerprint but something that looks like your fingerprint.

Rolf Mantel

2024-08-26 15:37:01 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index finger
which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest mistplacement or
turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't "loosen" up the
recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.
People do not understand how it works.

Probably related: On my private Redme smartphone, the fingerprint sensor
is integrated to the "on" button so I trained it on the thumb (IIRC I
was able to train it on several fingers).

It works perfectly fine 80-90% of the time but I sometimes have extreme
challenges reading the fingerprints when I have
1) sweaty hands
2) freshly washed hands
3) after applying sun lotion

The office phone (Google Pixel) has a figner print sensor on the front;
I only use the thumb on this.

A previous phone had the finger print sensor on the reverse; with this
phone it was natural to use the index finger for unlocking.

Rolf

cyclintom

2024-08-26 17:00:13 UTC

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index finger
which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest mistplacement or
turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't "loosen" up the
recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.
People do not understand how it works.

Probably related: On my private Redme smartphone, the fingerprint sensor
is integrated to the "on" button so I trained it on the thumb (IIRC I
was able to train it on several fingers).
It works perfectly fine 80-90% of the time but I sometimes have extreme
challenges reading the fingerprints when I have
1) sweaty hands
2) freshly washed hands
3) after applying sun lotion
The office phone (Google Pixel) has a figner print sensor on the front;
I only use the thumb on this.
A previous phone had the finger print sensor on the reverse; with this
phone it was natural to use the index finger for unlocking.
Rolf

My phone and the one's I've seen (I don't pay attention to the phones of other people) have a manual switch to turn them on. (push on, push off) The finderprint detector is a small spot on the screen much smaller than an index finger. So there's no way of "training it" to recognize and entire fingerprint but just a small section of the fingerprint. When I Android had a battery that was lasting only an hour or so I took it in to the company and they replaced it with a new one. In the process of doing that the sales people in the office that had the same type had the identical problem that I did which was taking sometimes a dozen attempts to either finally get a reconician or to go to the password.

I've never seen one that turns on with a thumbprint so I have no experience with that. But since this is a SINGLE purpose AI, they are bound to get it correct eventually.

The AI's I programmed were to answer questions with button pushes and they were near the birth of AI so it was difficult to get incorrect.

cyclintom

2025-01-10 22:01:24 UTC

Post by Rolf Mantel

Post by cyclintom
Just more of Liebermann's dreams. You normally use your index finger
which pretty much covers the patch, but the slightest mistplacement or
turn of your finger isn't regognized and you can't "loosen" up the
recognitian because that would make it easy to hack.
People do not understand how it works.

Probably related: On my private Redme smartphone, the fingerprint sensor
is integrated to the "on" button so I trained it on the thumb (IIRC I
was able to train it on several fingers).
It works perfectly fine 80-90% of the time but I sometimes have extreme
challenges reading the fingerprints when I have
1) sweaty hands
2) freshly washed hands
3) after applying sun lotion
The office phone (Google Pixel) has a figner print sensor on the front;
I only use the thumb on this.
A previous phone had the finger print sensor on the reverse; with this
phone it was natural to use the index finger for unlocking.

I bought a new phone and it has a slightly larger outline. But fingerprint ALWAYS works and almost instantly and it also had facial recognician that appears to work when you turn the unit on. Once a day you have to type a number sequence on or it would lock you out. This tells me that the facial recognician and finger print uses a LOT of short cuts and assumptions. I never used such things in my ptogramming since "almost" isn't good rnough in medical instruments. My last medical instrument programming job apparently ended with the cancer death of the chief scientist's (founder's) CEO daughter. He couldn't go on and sold the company off. That company apparently couldn't handle the programming task and went under. But the chief scientist apparently got the rights back. It had to do with flashing lights at the proper spectrum and frequency. I hear that it has been curing skin cancer now. We had been talking about using it on tunors.

Shadow

2025-01-10 23:06:37 UTC

Post by cyclintom
My last medical instrument programming job apparently ended with the cancer death of the chief scientist's (founder's) CEO daughter.

I'm sure he didn't suspect it was you.
[]'s

--
Don't be evil - Google 2004
We have a new policy - Google 2012
Google Fuchsia - 2021

cyclintom

2025-01-10 23:47:48 UTC

Post by Shadow

Post by cyclintom
My last medical instrument programming job apparently ended with the cancer death of the chief scientist's (founder's) CEO daughter.

I'm sure he didn't suspect it was you.

Your not being able to understand simple English is showing.

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-22 23:34:15 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

I don't use my thumb for biometric authentication on my smartphone,
laptop, or flash drive (Verbatim). Instead, I program the fingerprint
reader to authenticate using my index and middle fingers, on both
hands. (It's not called a thumbprint reader). There are multiple
reasons for not using the thumbs. Using the thumbs produces a general
lack of reliability due to the relatively small working area on the
sensor, compared to the rather large thumb area. Finding the correct
location on your thumb is awkward and difficult. Little wonder your
batting average is so low.
Of the various fingerprint readers I use, the one in my Moto G Power
(2020) is the one I use the most. I would estimate that I use at
least 70 times per day when working. The sensor is on the back of the
phone, so I just wrap my fingers around the phone and authenticate. No
need to turn the phone on in advance because the fingerprint sensor
detects my finger (from it temperature) and turns the phone on
automagically.
The reason why I have 2 fingers on each hand programmed is because I
sometimes it doesn't work very well when my hands are dirty. It's
also handy to be able to use either hand.
The only time it hasn't worked at all was when I was cleaning chainsaw
parts with solvent and leaky latex gloves. The solvent (acetone?)
wiped out most of my fingerprints. None of my fingerprints would
work. I tried washing and drying my hands, but the fingerprints
remained hidden. I switched to password security until my
fingerprints began reappearing. I had to reprogram the phone with all
4 fingerprints every 2 days for about 10 days when the fingerprints
finally stopped changing. Hint: Don't do that.

I have no experience there, but is that because your fingers
were exceptionally clean, such that an optical reader
couldn't discern the pattern?

No. When the phone is setup for fingerprint identification, the user
is instructed to put their finger on the fingerprint scanner. After
the scanner records the fingerprint, the user is instructed to rotate
their finger. The scanner scans that and combines it with the
previous scan. This is repeated until the finger is rotated through
the full 360 degrees. The result is that this finger can now be
applied to the scanner at any angle and that the scan is larger than
the sensor, so that the sensor can be positioned almost anywhere on
the sensor.

My fingerprint sensor is on the back of the phone. However, some
phones use the power button as a fingerprint sensor. Programming
these require a different procedure that does not involve rotation.
There are some YouTube videos showing how to program a phone that does
not involve rotation. I consider that to be a bad idea (except for
fingerprint sensors on the power button).

My Moto G Power (2020) will record up to 8(?) fingerprints. They can
be 8 of my fingers. Toes do not work (I've tried it). They can also
be fingerprints from several different people. I advise parents to
add their fingerprints to their kids phones. I've added my
fingerprints to various customers phones because it's convenient when
they ask me to fix their phone or tweak the phone settings.

Not all fingerprint sensors are the same. Some have a contact
thermometer to measure skin temperature which prevents someone from
making a rubber fingerprint facsimile. Some have a pulse sensor
(microphone) for the same purpose. Some have an IR camera, which
records the pattern of blood vessels, which are as unique as
fingerprints.

The problem with using the thumb is a mismatch between the large
diameter of the thumb print, compared to the smaller finger print
sensor on the back of the phone. Unless the initial scan covered all
of the thumb print, it is likely that the thumb will be positioned in
an area that was not scanned and the scan will fail.

Incidentally, I checked in via my phone to a doctors appointment on
Thurs. In order to login to the hospital system, I used my
fingerprint (twice).

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

AMuzi

2024-08-23 00:09:23 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

I don't use my thumb for biometric authentication on my smartphone,
laptop, or flash drive (Verbatim). Instead, I program the fingerprint
reader to authenticate using my index and middle fingers, on both
hands. (It's not called a thumbprint reader). There are multiple
reasons for not using the thumbs. Using the thumbs produces a general
lack of reliability due to the relatively small working area on the
sensor, compared to the rather large thumb area. Finding the correct
location on your thumb is awkward and difficult. Little wonder your
batting average is so low.
Of the various fingerprint readers I use, the one in my Moto G Power
(2020) is the one I use the most. I would estimate that I use at
least 70 times per day when working. The sensor is on the back of the
phone, so I just wrap my fingers around the phone and authenticate. No
need to turn the phone on in advance because the fingerprint sensor
detects my finger (from it temperature) and turns the phone on
automagically.
The reason why I have 2 fingers on each hand programmed is because I
sometimes it doesn't work very well when my hands are dirty. It's
also handy to be able to use either hand.
The only time it hasn't worked at all was when I was cleaning chainsaw
parts with solvent and leaky latex gloves. The solvent (acetone?)
wiped out most of my fingerprints. None of my fingerprints would
work. I tried washing and drying my hands, but the fingerprints
remained hidden. I switched to password security until my
fingerprints began reappearing. I had to reprogram the phone with all
4 fingerprints every 2 days for about 10 days when the fingerprints
finally stopped changing. Hint: Don't do that.

I have no experience there, but is that because your fingers
were exceptionally clean, such that an optical reader
couldn't discern the pattern?

No. When the phone is setup for fingerprint identification, the user
is instructed to put their finger on the fingerprint scanner. After
the scanner records the fingerprint, the user is instructed to rotate
their finger. The scanner scans that and combines it with the
previous scan. This is repeated until the finger is rotated through
the full 360 degrees. The result is that this finger can now be
applied to the scanner at any angle and that the scan is larger than
the sensor, so that the sensor can be positioned almost anywhere on
the sensor.
My fingerprint sensor is on the back of the phone. However, some
phones use the power button as a fingerprint sensor. Programming
these require a different procedure that does not involve rotation.
There are some YouTube videos showing how to program a phone that does
not involve rotation. I consider that to be a bad idea (except for
fingerprint sensors on the power button).
My Moto G Power (2020) will record up to 8(?) fingerprints. They can
be 8 of my fingers. Toes do not work (I've tried it). They can also
be fingerprints from several different people. I advise parents to
add their fingerprints to their kids phones. I've added my
fingerprints to various customers phones because it's convenient when
they ask me to fix their phone or tweak the phone settings.
Not all fingerprint sensors are the same. Some have a contact
thermometer to measure skin temperature which prevents someone from
making a rubber fingerprint facsimile. Some have a pulse sensor
(microphone) for the same purpose. Some have an IR camera, which
records the pattern of blood vessels, which are as unique as
fingerprints.
The problem with using the thumb is a mismatch between the large
diameter of the thumb print, compared to the smaller finger print
sensor on the back of the phone. Unless the initial scan covered all
of the thumb print, it is likely that the thumb will be positioned in
an area that was not scanned and the scan will fail.
Incidentally, I checked in via my phone to a doctors appointment on
Thurs. In order to login to the hospital system, I used my
fingerprint (twice).

I still don't understand.

I've temporarily lost fingerprints to acid, abrasion and
burns but not acetone.

--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-23 01:14:26 UTC

Post by Jeff Liebermann
The only time it hasn't worked at all was when I was cleaning chainsaw
parts with solvent and leaky latex gloves. The solvent (acetone?)
wiped out most of my fingerprints. None of my fingerprints would
work. I tried washing and drying my hands, but the fingerprints
remained hidden. I switched to password security until my
fingerprints began reappearing. I had to reprogram the phone with all
4 fingerprints every 2 days for about 10 days when the fingerprints
finally stopped changing. Hint: Don't do that.

I have no experience there, but is that because your fingers
were exceptionally clean, such that an optical reader
couldn't discern the pattern?

I still don't understand.
I've temporarily lost fingerprints to acid, abrasion and
burns but not acetone.

Sorry. I misread your question.

Notice that I included a "?" after the acetone indicating that I'm not
sure about the solvent I used. I suspect it was acetone, but I'm not
sure.

What it did was cause the skin on my fingers and wrinkle like a prune:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=acetone+pruney+fingers>
It felt like my skin had been stretched. Under a magnifier, my normal
fingerprint ridges were barely visible. Some examples:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=acetone+pruney+fingers&udm=2>

Most of the visible damage disappeared after about 2 days. The
fingerprint reader worked, but because my skin was still moving
around, it took about 10 days until my skin was sufficiently stable
for the fingerprint scanner to reliably recognize my fingerprints.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-23 00:37:32 UTC

Post by Jeff Liebermann
Of the various fingerprint readers I use, the one in my Moto G Power
(2020) is the one I use the most. I would estimate that I use at
least 70 times per day when working. The sensor is on the back of the
phone, so I just wrap my fingers around the phone and authenticate. No
need to turn the phone on in advance because the fingerprint sensor
detects my finger (from it temperature) and turns the phone on
automagically.
The reason why I have 2 fingers on each hand programmed is because I
sometimes it doesn't work very well when my hands are dirty. It's
also handy to be able to use either hand.

Same phone here. That sensor is my normal way of turning the phone on,
which happens dozens of times per day. The only time it's not worked has
been when my fingers were wet. I set it up to recognize just the index
finger of either hand.

BTW, the relatively big battery is down to needing recharge after maybe
12 hours. I'm pondering whether to go through the trouble of replacing
the battery. The phone capabilities are still all I need.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-23 01:56:24 UTC

On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 20:37:32 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Post by Jeff Liebermann
Of the various fingerprint readers I use, the one in my Moto G Power
(2020) is the one I use the most.

BTW, the relatively big battery is down to needing recharge after maybe
12 hours. I'm pondering whether to go through the trouble of replacing
the battery. The phone capabilities are still all I need.

I have the same problem. After 4 years of abuse, I now have to
recharge every day. When it was new, I could go for 3 days without
recharging.

I use AccuBattery Pro to monitor my battery usage and track it's
condition.
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digibites.accubattery&hl=en_US>
It says my 5,000 ma-hr battery is down to 82% of rated capacity.
That's about normal for my usage level (because I play far too much
Solitaire on the phone). Opening the phone and replacing the battery
isn't much of a problem for me. Finding a 3rd party replacement
battery that isn't junk or dead on arrival is the problem. I had to
give up on replacing the battery on a tables because 3 out of 3
replacements, from different vendors, were junk. Fortunately, I have
a spare Moto G Power (2020) with a good battery (95% of rated
capacity) that I will probably switch to when the run time on my
current phone becomes intolerable.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Roger Merriman

2024-08-23 10:32:48 UTC

Same phone here. That sensor is my normal way of turning the phone on,
which happens dozens of times per day. The only time it's not worked has
been when my fingers were wet. I set it up to recognize just the index
finger of either hand.
BTW, the relatively big battery is down to needing recharge after maybe
12 hours. I'm pondering whether to go through the trouble of replacing
the battery. The phone capabilities are still all I need.

12 hrs of standby? That’s fair poor I guess the question is considering the
low price of the phone is it worth costs and effort to get a new battery
and fit it?

Your phone is absolutely capable of running a hotspot by way, would depend
on the carrier.

Roger Merriman

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-23 14:35:54 UTC

Same phone here. That sensor is my normal way of turning the phone on,
which happens dozens of times per day. The only time it's not worked has
been when my fingers were wet. I set it up to recognize just the index
finger of either hand.
BTW, the relatively big battery is down to needing recharge after maybe
12 hours. I'm pondering whether to go through the trouble of replacing
the battery. The phone capabilities are still all I need.

12 hrs of standby? That’s fair poor I guess the question is considering the
low price of the phone is it worth costs and effort to get a new battery
and fit it?

I should be more clear. I don't really _have_ to recharge at 12 hours,
but I do because it shows the battery half gone.

Details: Last night near midnight I had it charged over 90%. Right now
(10.5 hours later) I plugged it in again because it showed 43% on the
battery.

I'm trying Jeff's app to see what I can learn.

I did once look up how to change the battery. Seems a very fussy procedure!

--
- Frank Krygowski

Roger Merriman

2024-08-23 15:10:50 UTC

Same phone here. That sensor is my normal way of turning the phone on,
which happens dozens of times per day. The only time it's not worked has
been when my fingers were wet. I set it up to recognize just the index
finger of either hand.
BTW, the relatively big battery is down to needing recharge after maybe
12 hours. I'm pondering whether to go through the trouble of replacing
the battery. The phone capabilities are still all I need.

12 hrs of standby? That’s fair poor I guess the question is considering the
low price of the phone is it worth costs and effort to get a new battery
and fit it?

I should be more clear. I don't really _have_ to recharge at 12 hours,
but I do because it shows the battery half gone.

I tend to charge my phone overnight so as long as it gets to that point
comfortably then that’s fine used it a fair bit today for train management
or rather checking which train which platform and so on on way to wales, so
has dropped to 60% if unlikely to drop much before I put it on the
charger.

Post by Frank Krygowski
Details: Last night near midnight I had it charged over 90%. Right now
(10.5 hours later) I plugged it in again because it showed 43% on the
battery.

That is fair drop unless it’s being used a lot? And fairly poor if standby.

Post by Frank Krygowski
I'm trying Jeff's app to see what I can learn.

I find less cycle counts and so on, it’s when batteries start to drop %
just on standby significantly that I start to think about replacing, and if
the phone can’t last a day say.

Post by Frank Krygowski
I did once look up how to change the battery. Seems a very fussy procedure!

It’s cost/effort as ever, I do also find that larger battery seem to last
better, over time, such as for example my iPad only the 2nd I’ve ever had
and is now 4 years old and absolutely fine in that regard as did the iPad
before that, compared to iPhone or similar devices which the battery gets a
harder life for various reasons.

Roger Merriman

cyclintom

2024-08-25 20:38:36 UTC

Same phone here. That sensor is my normal way of turning the phone on,
which happens dozens of times per day. The only time it's not worked has
been when my fingers were wet. I set it up to recognize just the index
finger of either hand.
BTW, the relatively big battery is down to needing recharge after maybe
12 hours. I'm pondering whether to go through the trouble of replacing
the battery. The phone capabilities are still all I need.

12 hrs of standby? That?s fair poor I guess the question is considering the
low price of the phone is it worth costs and effort to get a new battery
and fit it?

I should be more clear. I don't really _have_ to recharge at 12 hours,
but I do because it shows the battery half gone.

I tend to charge my phone overnight so as long as it gets to that point
comfortably then that?s fine used it a fair bit today for train management
or rather checking which train which platform and so on on way to wales, so
has dropped to 60% if unlikely to drop much before I put it on the
charger.

Post by Frank Krygowski
Details: Last night near midnight I had it charged over 90%. Right now
(10.5 hours later) I plugged it in again because it showed 43% on the
battery.

That is fair drop unless it?s being used a lot? And fairly poor if standby.

Post by Frank Krygowski
I'm trying Jeff's app to see what I can learn.

I find less cycle counts and so on, it?s when batteries start to drop %
just on standby significantly that I start to think about replacing, and if
the phone can?t last a day say.

Post by Frank Krygowski
I did once look up how to change the battery. Seems a very fussy procedure!

It?s cost/effort as ever, I do also find that larger battery seem to last
better, over time, such as for example my iPad only the 2nd I?ve ever had
and is now 4 years old and absolutely fine in that regard as did the iPad
before that, compared to iPhone or similar devices which the battery gets a
harder life for various reasons.
Roger Merriman

My suspicion is that they make the chargers for the Androids so that they ALWAYS charge to 100%. Were you to keep the charge between 20% and 80% the battery life would be much better.

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-25 21:29:29 UTC

Post by cyclintom
My suspicion is that they make the chargers for the Androids so that they ALWAYS charge to 100%. Were you to keep the charge between 20% and 80% the battery life would be much better.

Wow. You finally got something right. Congratulations.

Phones always charge to 100% because the manufacturers want to
advertise the longest "talk time" which requires a 100% charge. They
also want you to kill your phone battery so that you'll buy a new
phone every 5 years.

Most chargers have no provisions for setting when to stop charging.
The programmable chargers sold in the RC (radio control) market and
some laptops (Lenovo) have this feature. This is what I use on my
drones and some cordless power tools:
<https://hobbyking.com/en_us/skyrc-imax-b6-v2-60w-6a-1-6s-dc-charger-discharger.html>
There are better models available:
<https://hobbyking.com/en_us/batteries-chargers.html>
However, these will probably NOT work on a smartphone. The phone
wants to see a USB-C charger. You can probably charge the phone
directly from a 5V DC source, but you'll be limited to a 1 amp (5
watt) charge rate and not have the advantages of the various fast
charge modes.

There are apps for smartphones that will alert the user when the SoC
(state of charge) exceeds some settable percentage (typically 80%).
However, the app will NOT automatically stop charging when it hits 80%
(without rooting the phone). You're expected to unplug the charger
when the alarm rings. If not, it continues charging to 100%.
<https://play.google.com/store/search?q=limit+battery+charging&c=apps&hl=en_US>
Something like this:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=apps.syrupy.fullbatterychargealarm&hl=en_US>

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-24 02:46:41 UTC

On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 10:35:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski
I'm trying Jeff's app to see what I can learn.

You probably won't learn much. The app needs historical data from the
day the battery was first used. There's no way to get any prior
history from the phone. If you had installed the app when you bought
the phone, the results would have been useful. Even so, there's no
way to restore lost battery capacity other than replacing the battery
with a new battery.
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=moto+g+power+2020+battery>

Here's the results from my phone with about 3.4 years of data:
<Loading Image...

>

If all else fails, you can run the phone on a half dead battery, and
charge the half dead battery with an external USB-C "battery bank".
Ugly, but functional.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-24 15:22:22 UTC

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 10:35:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski
I'm trying Jeff's app to see what I can learn.

You probably won't learn much. The app needs historical data from the
day the battery was first used. There's no way to get any prior
history from the phone. If you had installed the app when you bought
the phone, the results would have been useful. Even so, there's no
way to restore lost battery capacity other than replacing the battery
with a new battery.
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=moto+g+power+2020+battery>
<https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/battery-2024-08-23.jpg>
If all else fails, you can run the phone on a half dead battery, and
charge the half dead battery with an external USB-C "battery bank".
Ugly, but functional.

I'm doing OK by just plugging in the phone whenever I'm sitting near a
charger - like now, or when driving.

Actually, my impression is that it drops surprisingly quickly down to
~50% or so, but drops much more slowly from that point on. Is this typical?

--
- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-24 16:41:20 UTC

On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 11:22:22 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 10:35:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski
I'm trying Jeff's app to see what I can learn.

You probably won't learn much. The app needs historical data from the
day the battery was first used. There's no way to get any prior
history from the phone. If you had installed the app when you bought
the phone, the results would have been useful. Even so, there's no
way to restore lost battery capacity other than replacing the battery
with a new battery.
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=moto+g+power+2020+battery>
<https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/battery-2024-08-23.jpg>
If all else fails, you can run the phone on a half dead battery, and
charge the half dead battery with an external USB-C "battery bank".
Ugly, but functional.

I'm doing OK by just plugging in the phone whenever I'm sitting near a
charger - like now, or when driving.
Actually, my impression is that it drops surprisingly quickly down to
~50% or so, but drops much more slowly from that point on. Is this typical?

Yes. I'm seeing the same thing on both my Moto G Power 2020 phones
and a few others. The discharge curve for LiPo pouch cells[1] shows
that it discharges very quickly from 100% to 90% and doesn't really
stabilize until it's down to about 80%. The slope of the discharge
curve is very dependent on the current or power drain and the
temperature. Little current drain results in a fairly flat curve,
while high current drains (cellular talking, backlighting, watching HD
movies, large data transfers, etc) produces a far more rapid
discharge.

Some sample Li-Ion and LiPo discharge curves:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=lithium+ion+discharge+curve&udm=2>

Using the AccuBattery app, my phone draws 200 ma with just
backlighting, 250 ma when I turn on the flashlight, and 600 ma playing
a video on YouTube via wi-fi. To put the various graphs in context,
the battery capacity is 5000 ma-hrs and battery drains are 0.04C,
0.04C, and 0.12C respectively.

[1] Trivia: The flat "battery" in a cell phone is LiPo (lithium
polymer) pouch cells and not Lithium-Ion. The charge and discharge
characteristics are similar, but not identical.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=lipo+pouch+cell&udm=2>

Cell phone "batteries" are usually a single Li-Ion "cell". When two
or more "cells" are combined, they form a "battery", as in an
artillery battery is composed of 2 or more cannons. Therefore, we
should be calling the single cell in a cell phone a "cell" and not a
"battery". Similarly, it's not really a "battery charger" but should
be a "cell charger".

The "cell" in "cell phone" has nothing to do with the aforementioned.
The "cell" is in reference to cellular architecture of the cell phone
system. All I can say is that this mess is unlikely to ever change
and that it's not my fault.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Roger Merriman

2024-08-24 20:22:41 UTC

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Fri, 23 Aug 2024 10:35:54 -0400, Frank Krygowski

Post by Frank Krygowski
I'm trying Jeff's app to see what I can learn.

You probably won't learn much. The app needs historical data from the
day the battery was first used. There's no way to get any prior
history from the phone. If you had installed the app when you bought
the phone, the results would have been useful. Even so, there's no
way to restore lost battery capacity other than replacing the battery
with a new battery.
<https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=moto+g+power+2020+battery>
<https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/battery-2024-08-23.jpg>
If all else fails, you can run the phone on a half dead battery, and
charge the half dead battery with an external USB-C "battery bank".
Ugly, but functional.

I'm doing OK by just plugging in the phone whenever I'm sitting near a
charger - like now, or when driving.
Actually, my impression is that it drops surprisingly quickly down to
~50% or so, but drops much more slowly from that point on. Is this typical?

In time will eventually get to point, that it will not cope with peak
demand, ie the batteries can’t supply the power to run a video or similar
high demand and generally phone turns off.

Though probably by sounds of things another few years.

Roger Merriman

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-25 02:26:32 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

Try running the hardware diagnostics on your Samsung phone:
<https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/other-galaxy-s-series/did-you-know-you-can-check-your-phones-hardware-yourself/td-p/2797584>
"If you have the Samsung Members App installed, at the bottom of your
screen click on 'GET HELP' and then go 'Phone Care' and "Interactive
Checks' and you can test 12 different hardware components of your
phone."

Samsung Members App:
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samsung.android.voc&hl=en_US>

However, if your hand or index finger is shaking from Parkinson's,
Multiple Sclerosis, Hyperthyroidism, excessive caffeine, alcohol
withdrawal, low blood sugar, smoking, etc the fingerprint test might
fail to function properly.

I'll try the app on a Samsung S10e and see if and how the fingerprint
test works (after the battery is done charging and the phone is done
updating).

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-25 03:09:25 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

<https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/other-galaxy-s-series/did-you-know-you-can-check-your-phones-hardware-yourself/td-p/2797584>
"If you have the Samsung Members App installed, at the bottom of your
screen click on 'GET HELP' and then go 'Phone Care' and "Interactive
Checks' and you can test 12 different hardware components of your
phone."
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.samsung.android.voc&hl=en_US>
However, if your hand or index finger is shaking from Parkinson's,
Multiple Sclerosis, Hyperthyroidism, excessive caffeine, alcohol
withdrawal, low blood sugar, smoking, etc the fingerprint test might
fail to function properly.
I'll try the app on a Samsung S10e and see if and how the fingerprint
test works (after the battery is done charging and the phone is done
updating).

Tom. The "Samsung Members" app installs and probably works. There's
also a similar "Device Care" app installed, which includes diagnostics
similar to the "Samsung Members" app. However, both apps want me to
sign in with a Samsung account (not a Google account). I don't want
to setup a new account just to test this phone. So, you get to try it
yourself.

Also, I added another fingerprint to the phone to see how it works.
The S10e uses a thin sensor on the power button. When the fingerprint
app gets a bad scan, it advised me to "Rotate your finger slightly to
get a full scan" (or something like that). You might try that to get
a better scan.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

cyclintom

2024-08-25 20:53:20 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

Tom. The "Samsung Members" app installs and probably works. There's
also a similar "Device Care" app installed, which includes diagnostics
similar to the "Samsung Members" app. However, both apps want me to
sign in with a Samsung account (not a Google account). I don't want
to setup a new account just to test this phone. So, you get to try it
yourself.
Also, I added another fingerprint to the phone to see how it works.
The S10e uses a thin sensor on the power button. When the fingerprint
app gets a bad scan, it advised me to "Rotate your finger slightly to
get a full scan" (or something like that). You might try that to get
a better scan.
--
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

When I had the Android replaced, the salesman and the one speaking to another customer also took several tries to get the index finger recongnician. So I suggest you stick your comments and probable lies up your ass with the rest of your bullshit comments.

Why don't you ask Flunky why he insisted that it was called "facial recognition" and then referred me to an article where is was properly called "face recognition". In that article it mentioned someone who had face recognition software used in evidence against them. But it has become standard practice for Democrats to ignore constitutional rights. Wait - you don't know what right that would refer to do you?

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-25 22:16:50 UTC

Post by cyclintom
When I had the Android replaced, the salesman and the one speaking to another customer also took several tries to get the index finger recongnician.

You're welcome.

I don't believe you. If you really had your Samsung A51 replaced, why
did you wait until now to mention it? It would have made a perfect
exit strategy.

I just realized I made a mistake. You have a Samsung Galaxy A51
phone. I assumed that the A51 had the same fingerprint sensor as my
A21. Nope, they're different. The A21 has the sensor on the on/off
button, while the A51 has the sensor behind the screen. Both require
finger rotation when adding a fingerprint to the phone. Sorry about
the confusion.

Post by cyclintom
So I suggest you stick your comments and probable lies up your ass with the rest of your bullshit comments.

I'll ignore your suggestion. I'm not interested in exchanging
profanity, insults, and anatomical gestures with you. The risk of me
becoming something like you is far too great. It's unlikely that I'll
stop fact checking your rants. It's good mental exercise and great
entertainment (for me).

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Zen Cycle

2024-08-26 23:02:05 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

Tom. The "Samsung Members" app installs and probably works. There's
also a similar "Device Care" app installed, which includes diagnostics
similar to the "Samsung Members" app. However, both apps want me to
sign in with a Samsung account (not a Google account). I don't want
to setup a new account just to test this phone. So, you get to try it
yourself.
Also, I added another fingerprint to the phone to see how it works.
The S10e uses a thin sensor on the power button. When the fingerprint
app gets a bad scan, it advised me to "Rotate your finger slightly to
get a full scan" (or something like that). You might try that to get
a better scan.
--
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

More tommy bullshit stories

Post by cyclintom
Why don't you ask Flunky why he insisted that it was called "facial recognition" and then referred me to an article where is was properly called "face recognition".

The dispute wasn't 'face' vs 'facial, it was 'recognition' vs
'recognician', you fucking idiot.

Post by cyclintom
In that article it mentioned someone who had face recognition software used in evidence against them.

Because it's admissible in every court in the country.

Post by cyclintom
But it has become standard practice for Democrats to ignore constitutional rights.

Oh, you mean like these guys?
https://www.aclu-nj.org/en/news/weve-called-total-ban-use-facial-recognition-law-enforcement-heres-why
Tommy, are you turning into a stinking new jersey liberal?
Be that as it maybe, Why wold the ACLU be calling for a ban on something
that was already unconstitutional?

Post by cyclintom
Wait - you don't know what right that would refer to do you?

Why don't you say that to my face? Or better yet, give us your real name? Liebermann could look you up and tell us all the value of your property and where it is.

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-27 23:12:56 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Why don't you say that to my face? Or better yet, give us your real name?

Tom. Your face? With each of your stupid comments, you lose more
face, until there's nothing left.

Lose-Face:
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lose-face>
"Be embarrassed or humiliated, especially publicly."

Post by cyclintom
Liebermann could look you up and tell us all the value of your property and where it is.

You just lost some more face. What Alameda County provides on their
site was the assessed valuation for tax purposes. The value of your
property is (hopefully) more than that. However, the value of your
house and property are not established until they are sold. The best
you can do is to lookup what it might be worth on one of the real
estate home valuation sites, which base their estimate on the selling
price of nearby comparable houses. For example, Zillow estimates that
your used bicycle warehouse is worth:
<https://www.zillow.com/how-much-is-my-home-worth/>
$828,500 or somewhere between $771,000 and $886,000.

Property tax details are always fun:
<https://www.acgov.org/ptax_pub_app/RealSearchInit.do?showSearchParmsFromLookup=true>
I looked at some of the tax bills and found this:
ASSESSEE NAME AND ADDRESS ARE NOT AVAILABLE ONLINE
PER CA GOV CODE §6254.21
So, I can't easily determine if someone else owns the house or if you
have a reverse mortgage.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

cyclintom

2024-08-30 17:59:46 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Why don't you say that to my face? Or better yet, give us your real name?

Tom. Your face? With each of your stupid comments, you lose more
face, until there's nothing left.
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lose-face>
"Be embarrassed or humiliated, especially publicly."

Post by cyclintom
Liebermann could look you up and tell us all the value of your property and where it is.

You just lost some more face. What Alameda County provides on their
site was the assessed valuation for tax purposes. The value of your
property is (hopefully) more than that. However, the value of your
house and property are not established until they are sold. The best
you can do is to lookup what it might be worth on one of the real
estate home valuation sites, which base their estimate on the selling
price of nearby comparable houses. For example, Zillow estimates that
<https://www.zillow.com/how-much-is-my-home-worth/>
$828,500 or somewhere between $771,000 and $886,000.
<https://www.acgov.org/ptax_pub_app/RealSearchInit.do?showSearchParmsFromLookup=true>
ASSESSEE NAME AND ADDRESS ARE NOT AVAILABLE ONLINE
PER CA GOV CODE ?6254.21
So, I can't easily determine if someone else owns the house or if you
have a reverse mortgage.
--
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Says the man without gas and probably electricity to his home. Tell us more about how there weren't landslides onto Cull Canyon during the rains because you looked at Google Earth summer photos. Tell us all how there was no water behind the dsm.

Explain to everyone the worth of a home that isn't on the market.

AMuzi

2024-08-30 18:01:40 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Why don't you say that to my face? Or better yet, give us your real name?

Tom. Your face? With each of your stupid comments, you lose more
face, until there's nothing left.
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lose-face>
"Be embarrassed or humiliated, especially publicly."

Post by cyclintom
Liebermann could look you up and tell us all the value of your property and where it is.

You just lost some more face. What Alameda County provides on their
site was the assessed valuation for tax purposes. The value of your
property is (hopefully) more than that. However, the value of your
house and property are not established until they are sold. The best
you can do is to lookup what it might be worth on one of the real
estate home valuation sites, which base their estimate on the selling
price of nearby comparable houses. For example, Zillow estimates that
<https://www.zillow.com/how-much-is-my-home-worth/>
$828,500 or somewhere between $771,000 and $886,000.
<https://www.acgov.org/ptax_pub_app/RealSearchInit.do?showSearchParmsFromLookup=true>
ASSESSEE NAME AND ADDRESS ARE NOT AVAILABLE ONLINE
PER CA GOV CODE ?6254.21
So, I can't easily determine if someone else owns the house or if you
have a reverse mortgage.
--
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Says the man without gas and probably electricity to his home. Tell us more about how there weren't landslides onto Cull Canyon during the rains because you looked at Google Earth summer photos. Tell us all how there was no water behind the dsm.
Explain to everyone the worth of a home that isn't on the market.

County tax assessors and insurance actuaries seem to manage
that pretty well.

--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

cyclintom

2024-08-30 23:19:48 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Why don't you say that to my face? Or better yet, give us your real name?

Tom. Your face? With each of your stupid comments, you lose more
face, until there's nothing left.
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lose-face>
"Be embarrassed or humiliated, especially publicly."

Post by cyclintom
Liebermann could look you up and tell us all the value of your property and where it is.

You just lost some more face. What Alameda County provides on their
site was the assessed valuation for tax purposes. The value of your
property is (hopefully) more than that. However, the value of your
house and property are not established until they are sold. The best
you can do is to lookup what it might be worth on one of the real
estate home valuation sites, which base their estimate on the selling
price of nearby comparable houses. For example, Zillow estimates that
<https://www.zillow.com/how-much-is-my-home-worth/>
$828,500 or somewhere between $771,000 and $886,000.
<https://www.acgov.org/ptax_pub_app/RealSearchInit.do?showSearchParmsFromLookup=true>
ASSESSEE NAME AND ADDRESS ARE NOT AVAILABLE ONLINE
PER CA GOV CODE ?6254.21
So, I can't easily determine if someone else owns the house or if you
have a reverse mortgage.
--
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Says the man without gas and probably electricity to his home. Tell us more about how there weren't landslides onto Cull Canyon during the rains because you looked at Google Earth summer photos. Tell us all how there was no water behind the dsm.
Explain to everyone the worth of a home that isn't on the market.

County tax assessors and insurance actuaries seem to manage
that pretty well.
--
Andrew Muzi
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

They do that strictly on the assumption that you will not live forever and SOMEONE will sell it. If I have no wish to sell it, it is worth whatever I say it is worth. Which since my wife moved back in and turned this place into a garbage dump is nothing.

Jeff Liebermann

2024-08-30 23:33:34 UTC

Post by cyclintom
They do that strictly on the assumption that you will not live forever and SOMEONE will sell it. If I have no wish to sell it, it is worth whatever I say it is worth. Which since my wife moved back in and turned this place into a garbage dump is nothing.

If your purpose in posting that remark is to attract sympathy, it
worked. I feel sorry for her.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Frank Krygowski

2024-08-31 01:28:05 UTC

Tom, sounds like you're going to have to invent a new way of bragging
about your purported wealth!

--
- Frank Krygowski

cyclintom

2025-01-11 23:18:10 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Why don't you say that to my face? Or better yet, give us your real name?

Tom. Your face? With each of your stupid comments, you lose more
face, until there's nothing left.
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lose-face>
"Be embarrassed or humiliated, especially publicly."

Post by cyclintom
Liebermann could look you up and tell us all the value of your property and where it is.

You just lost some more face. What Alameda County provides on their
site was the assessed valuation for tax purposes. The value of your
property is (hopefully) more than that. However, the value of your
house and property are not established until they are sold. The best
you can do is to lookup what it might be worth on one of the real
estate home valuation sites, which base their estimate on the selling
price of nearby comparable houses. For example, Zillow estimates that
<https://www.zillow.com/how-much-is-my-home-worth/>
$828,500 or somewhere between $771,000 and $886,000.
<https://www.acgov.org/ptax_pub_app/RealSearchInit.do?showSearchParmsFromLookup=true>
ASSESSEE NAME AND ADDRESS ARE NOT AVAILABLE ONLINE
PER CA GOV CODE ?6254.21
So, I can't easily determine if someone else owns the house or if you
have a reverse mortgage.

Tell me that it wasn't my father but my brother though somehow you apparently think that I never had a father. I liked your comment about my mother being someone named "Violet" even after I told everyone that not only is Kunich a common name that there was even another Thomas Kunich in the same town as me.

Is there anything that you can get correct? You can't keep track of my brothers since I suppose you can't count to three. You and Flunky are willing to quote Jobst Brandt posting my mother's address and posting it as mine when I lived 20 miles away and was married. This group was destroyed by Brandt doing that leaving people like you to post about taxes or something.

You and Flunky really need to get together. He needs a big hug and kiss from you to feel wanted. Tell me again how I paid too much for my car or that my home is worth nothing. Tell me that my million one in investments is all in my imagination.Tell me that I didn't just call up and get $4,000 in my bank accout to catch up with my credit card. Poor soul, you're lost and alone and your father saw you for what you are.

My father was a drunk but at least he wanted to be a good father.

Hey Flunky, tell everyone I'm a drunk. I did get a glass of wine with dinner a couple of nights ago in a local restaurant. What I think is that you have earned everything that people around you think of you. I'm sure that this summer you can go out and finish last in your Cat 3 yet again. It is likely that our Cat 5 that I was in was a lot faster than your Cat 3 and you can't even keep up with them. Must be those friction shifter that you never look down to shift. I'm about to pass on a DeRosa Merak to my oldest step-daughter. She has a million medals for winning her class in bay area runs and she also does bi and triathelons.

That LTWoo 10 speed shift group that I got for $128 works very well. It didn't need anything other than the rear derailleur limits set and shifts perfect. Too bad you bought Microshift. You can't even buy cheap correctly.

Tom Kunich

2025-01-15 21:19:59 UTC

Post by cyclintom
Why don't you say that to my face? Or better yet, give us your real name?

Tom. Your face? With each of your stupid comments, you lose more
face, until there's nothing left.
<https://www.dictionary.com/browse/lose-face>
"Be embarrassed or humiliated, especially publicly."

Post by cyclintom
Liebermann could look you up and tell us all the value of your
property and where it is.

showSearchParmsFromLookup=true>

Post by Jeff Liebermann
ASSESSEE NAME AND ADDRESS ARE NOT AVAILABLE ONLINE PER CA GOV CODE
?6254.21
So, I can't easily determine if someone else owns the house or if you
have a reverse mortgage.

Tell me that it wasn't my father but my brother though somehow you
apparently think that I never had a father. I liked your comment about
my mother being someone named "Violet" even after I told everyone that
not only is Kunich a common name that there was even another Thomas
Kunich in the same town as me.
Is there anything that you can get correct? You can't keep track of my
brothers since I suppose you can't count to three. You and Flunky are
willing to quote Jobst Brandt posting my mother's address and posting it
as mine when I lived 20 miles away and was married. This group was
destroyed by Brandt doing that leaving people like you to post about
taxes or something.
You and Flunky really need to get together. He needs a big hug and kiss
from you to feel wanted. Tell me again how I paid too much for my car or
that my home is worth nothing. Tell me that my million one in
investments is all in my imagination.Tell me that I didn't just call up
and get $4,000 in my bank accout to catch up with my credit card. Poor
soul, you're lost and alone and your father saw you for what you are.
My father was a drunk but at least he wanted to be a good father.
Hey Flunky, tell everyone I'm a drunk. I did get a glass of wine with
dinner a couple of nights ago in a local restaurant. What I think is
that you have earned everything that people around you think of you. I'm
sure that this summer you can go out and finish last in your Cat 3 yet
again. It is likely that our Cat 5 that I was in was a lot faster than
your Cat 3 and you can't even keep up with them. Must be those friction
shifter that you never look down to shift. I'm about to pass on a DeRosa
Merak to my oldest step-daughter. She has a million medals for winning
her class in bay area runs and she also does bi and triathelons.
That LTWoo 10 speed shift group that I got for $128 works very well. It
didn't need anything other than the rear derailleur limits set and
shifts perfect. Too bad you bought Microshift. You can't even buy cheap
correctly.

As proof that Jobst had his head up his ass the paper on Trends of bicycle
safety or whatever SHOWED the town I was living in. But Flunky is in love
with you and you should snuggle up with him. It is the closest to being a
human being you'll ever get

cyclintom

2025-01-10 21:49:44 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

Don't you understand the difference between minimal voice recognotion and real artificial intelliugence?

You have spent your entire life working as an electronics technician. Why is that if you're so smart? You seem incapable of reflecting on your own life.

Jeff Liebermann

2025-01-11 00:09:18 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

Don't you understand the difference between minimal voice recognotion and real artificial intelliugence?

I never mentioned AI. Your Samsung Galaxy A51 cell phone does not use
AI to recognize your fingerprint or your voice. Reading Samsung's
instructions for running the hardware diagnostics baked into your
phone is well beyond your abilities. Are you afraid of failing the
fingerprint reader self test? The best you can do is dish out more
insults and change the subject to something else, such as AI or
yourself. Like I've mentioned too often, you're a waste of my time.

Post by cyclintom
You have spent your entire life working as an electronics technician. Why is that if you're so smart? You seem incapable of reflecting on your own life.

Whatever.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

zen cycle

2025-01-11 12:27:05 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

Don't you understand the difference between minimal voice recognotion and real artificial intelliugence?

Contrary to tommys claims, his experience with AI is on par with that of
being his claims of being a business manager - i.e. a complete fabrication

Post by Jeff Liebermann
Are you afraid of failing the
fingerprint reader self test? The best you can do is dish out more
insults and change the subject to something else, such as AI or
yourself. Like I've mentioned too often, you're a waste of my time.

My new years resolution was to block tommy. So far it's going well. You
might want to try it.

Post by cyclintom
You have spent your entire life working as an electronics technician. Why is that if you're so smart? You seem incapable of reflecting on your own life.

oh, the irony....

Post by Jeff Liebermann
Whatever.

Jeff Liebermann

2025-01-11 22:06:38 UTC

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 07:27:05 -0500, zen cycle

Post by Jeff Liebermann
I never mentioned AI. Your Samsung Galaxy A51 cell phone does not use
AI to recognize your fingerprint or your voice. Reading Samsung's
instructions for running the hardware diagnostics baked into your
phone is well beyond your abilities.

Contrary to tommys claims, his experience with AI is on par with that of
being his claims of being a business manager - i.e. a complete fabrication

Of course. That's obvious to anyone with sufficient intestinal
fortitude to swallow Tom's claims. However, proving that it's a lie,
fabrication or a historical re-write is not easy. Anyone can simply
declare that Tom is lying, but that isn't fun. The fun part is
proving that Tom is lying, which takes some research and effort.
Besides the easy fact checking, I really enjoy using Tom's own
postings from the past to demonstrate his contradictions and
confusion. It's like some of the older detective stories, such as
Peter Falk in "Columbo", where everyone knows who did it. The problem
is proving that he did it.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbo>

My new years resolution was to block tommy. So far it's going well. You
might want to try it.

I have tried it, several times. I tried about a month ago, when I
became rather busy, only to have Tom drop my name in almost all of his
posting. His plan was probably to attract my attention so he had
someone to argue with. When that didn't work, he increased the number
of postings and added far too many amazing facts. I have very little
will power when faced with such a tempting target. So, I started
replying again to his rubbish. It's difficult for me to stop when I'm
having so much fun.

Thanks for the suggestion, but not quite yet.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

cyclintom

2025-01-11 22:43:31 UTC

Post by zen cycle
Contrary to tommys claims, his experience with AI is on par with that of
being his claims of being a business manager - i.e. a complete fabrication

I NEVER claimed to be a business manager. Is there one thing that you can get correct? I was a partner is Hawk telephone but that is not claiming to be a business manager. I was a Project manager at Tality but again that is NOT a business manager nor a false claim. In the meqantime you have said many times here that you're not a QC manager when that is what you are even though you never actually manage anyone since you're on this newsgroup 24/7.

Jeff Liebermann

2025-01-11 23:07:51 UTC

Post by zen cycle
Contrary to tommys claims, his experience with AI is on par with that of
being his claims of being a business manager - i.e. a complete fabrication

In your own words, you claimed to have been a "professional management
consultant". Do you regularly change titles on your business cards?

08/13/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/os7AghdvUBA/m/-i474K9uBAAJ>
"I was a professional management consultant - remember? Companies that
ignored my advice failed rapidly."

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

zen cycle

2025-01-11 23:14:42 UTC

Post by zen cycle
Contrary to tommys claims, his experience with AI is on par with that of
being his claims of being a business manager - i.e. a complete fabrication

In your own words, you claimed to have been a "professional management
consultant". Do you regularly change titles on your business cards?
08/13/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/os7AghdvUBA/m/-i474K9uBAAJ>
"I was a professional management consultant - remember? Companies that
ignored my advice failed rapidly."

yeah, I misquoted tommy's tall tale....so shoot me.

Jeff Liebermann

2025-01-12 05:21:42 UTC

On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:14:42 -0500, zen cycle

Post by zen cycle
Contrary to tommys claims, his experience with AI is on par with that of
being his claims of being a business manager - i.e. a complete fabrication

In your own words, you claimed to have been a "professional management
consultant". Do you regularly change titles on your business cards?
08/13/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/os7AghdvUBA/m/-i474K9uBAAJ>
"I was a professional management consultant - remember? Companies that
ignored my advice failed rapidly."

yeah, I misquoted tommy's tall tale....so shoot me.

Not a problem. Tom also did the same thing. He started out as a
"professional management consultant". When he couldn't remember that
title, he substituted something else, which I'm too lazy to find. I
think this is the 2nd or 3rd time I've corrected him. I wouldn't
worry about misquoting Tom. He does that quite adequately to himself.

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

cyclintom

2025-01-15 20:59:10 UTC

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:14:42 -0500, zen cycle

Post by zen cycle
Contrary to tommys claims, his experience with AI is on par with that of
being his claims of being a business manager - i.e. a complete fabrication

In your own words, you claimed to have been a "professional management
consultant". Do you regularly change titles on your business cards?
08/13/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/os7AghdvUBA/m/-i474K9uBAAJ>
"I was a professional management consultant - remember? Companies that
ignored my advice failed rapidly."

yeah, I misquoted tommy's tall tale....so shoot me.

I was indeed a professional consultant for Embarcadero Systems electronics department because the only people in the company that knew what they were doing were the technicians and the board designer. And THAT is the job that was paying me $223,000 a year. That is NOT a business manager but HOW would you know when you've never held a job that paid you a living wage?

Flunky has been telling us that he is a bike racer and then a little simple math from what he told us yesterday showed him to be 65 years old. Real bike racer he.

You two are really working overtime to attempt to prove me wrong at anything. A paper out of Japan in one of their medical journals said that the mRNA vaccines INCREASED by 80% the chances of catching Covid-19. It also increases the chances of peri and myocarditis. It also increases the chance of dementia and turbocancers. I am aware that highly intelligent Flunky claims there is no such thing as "turbo cancers" but I have referenced three papers published in medical journals that referred to it as turbocancers.

You said that you were due for your - PLEASE get it. Hopefully Flunky will as well. Exactly what sort of hopeless fool would follow Fauci like a dog?

AMuzi

2025-01-15 21:41:51 UTC

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:14:42 -0500, zen cycle

Post by zen cycle
Contrary to tommys claims, his experience with AI is on par with that of
being his claims of being a business manager - i.e. a complete fabrication

In your own words, you claimed to have been a "professional management
consultant". Do you regularly change titles on your business cards?
08/13/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/os7AghdvUBA/m/-i474K9uBAAJ>
"I was a professional management consultant - remember? Companies that
ignored my advice failed rapidly."

yeah, I misquoted tommy's tall tale....so shoot me.

I was indeed a professional consultant for Embarcadero Systems electronics department because the only people in the company that knew what they were doing were the technicians and the board designer. And THAT is the job that was paying me $223,000 a year. That is NOT a business manager but HOW would you know when you've never held a job that paid you a living wage?
Flunky has been telling us that he is a bike racer and then a little simple math from what he told us yesterday showed him to be 65 years old. Real bike racer he.
You two are really working overtime to attempt to prove me wrong at anything. A paper out of Japan in one of their medical journals said that the mRNA vaccines INCREASED by 80% the chances of catching Covid-19. It also increases the chances of peri and myocarditis. It also increases the chance of dementia and turbocancers. I am aware that highly intelligent Flunky claims there is no such thing as "turbo cancers" but I have referenced three papers published in medical journals that referred to it as turbocancers.
You said that you were due for your - PLEASE get it. Hopefully Flunky will as well. Exactly what sort of hopeless fool would follow Fauci like a dog?

In fairness an AI system to compare fingerprints from a
large, yet obviously finite, range need only do that. And
not, as humans, also compare Marx to Bastiat, remember
grandmother's recipes, power through a tight corner
differently in rear engine or front engine cars, recall a
hot girlfriend, do car mileage calculations while driving,
daydream about a Caravaggio while playing Billie Holiday in
the background and more.

--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Catrike Ryder

2025-01-15 21:56:12 UTC

Post by Jeff Liebermann
On Sat, 11 Jan 2025 18:14:42 -0500, zen cycle

Post by zen cycle
Contrary to tommys claims, his experience with AI is on par with that of
being his claims of being a business manager - i.e. a complete fabrication

In your own words, you claimed to have been a "professional management
consultant". Do you regularly change titles on your business cards?
08/13/2023
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/os7AghdvUBA/m/-i474K9uBAAJ>
"I was a professional management consultant - remember? Companies that
ignored my advice failed rapidly."

yeah, I misquoted tommy's tall tale....so shoot me.

I was indeed a professional consultant for Embarcadero Systems electronics department because the only people in the company that knew what they were doing were the technicians and the board designer. And THAT is the job that was paying me $223,000 a year. That is NOT a business manager but HOW would you know when you've never held a job that paid you a living wage?
Flunky has been telling us that he is a bike racer and then a little simple math from what he told us yesterday showed him to be 65 years old. Real bike racer he.
You two are really working overtime to attempt to prove me wrong at anything. A paper out of Japan in one of their medical journals said that the mRNA vaccines INCREASED by 80% the chances of catching Covid-19. It also increases the chances of peri and myocarditis. It also increases the chance of dementia and turbocancers. I am aware that highly intelligent Flunky claims there is no such thing as "turbo cancers" but I have referenced three papers published in medical journals that referred to it as turbocancers.
You said that you were due for your - PLEASE get it. Hopefully Flunky will as well. Exactly what sort of hopeless fool would follow Fauci like a dog?

Differentiate between strangers and us, and our friends and relatives
at our doors.

--
C'est bon
Soloman

Frank Krygowski

2025-01-16 02:13:22 UTC

I was indeed a professional consultant for Embarcadero Systems
electronics department because the only people in the company that
knew what they were doing were the technicians and the board designer.
And THAT is the job that was paying me $223,000 a year. That is NOT a
business manager but HOW would you know when you've never held a job
that paid you a living wage?
Flunky has been telling us that he is a bike racer and then a little
simple math from what he told us yesterday showed him to be 65 years
old. Real bike racer he.
You two are really working overtime to attempt to prove me wrong at
anything. A paper out of Japan in one of their medical journals said
that the mRNA vaccines INCREASED by 80% the chances of catching
Covid-19. It also increases the chances of peri and myocarditis. It
also increases the chance of dementia and turbocancers. I am aware
that highly intelligent Flunky claims there is no such thing as "turbo
cancers" but I have referenced three papers published in medical
journals that referred to it as turbocancers.
You said that you were due for your - PLEASE get it. Hopefully Flunky
will as well. Exactly what sort of hopeless fool would follow Fauci
like a dog?

In fairness an AI system to compare fingerprints from a large, yet
obviously finite, range need only do that. And not, as humans, also
compare Marx to Bastiat, remember grandmother's recipes, power through a
tight corner differently in rear engine or front engine cars, recall a
hot girlfriend, do car mileage calculations while driving, daydream
about a Caravaggio while playing Billie Holiday in the background and more.

:-) With Tom, all those things are likely to pop up in one post! As
above - "professional consultant" to bike racers to mRNA to "due for
your -" [??]

Again, Chihuly managed to portray Tom's mind in sculpture:

Loading Image...

--
- Frank Krygowski

cyclintom

2025-01-11 22:37:12 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

Don't you understand the difference between minimal voice recognotion and real artificial intelliugence?

Post by cyclintom
You have spent your entire life working as an electronics technician. Why is that if you're so smart? You seem incapable of reflecting on your own life.

Whatever.

I'm trying to imaghine someone that has never risen above the level of technician telling someone who has completed projects for LLL, NASA and the Army that they don't know what they're talking about. You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole. I know what AI is and you haven't even a clue.

Jeff Liebermann

2025-01-11 23:19:24 UTC

Post by cyclintom
I'm trying to imaghine someone that has never risen above the level of technician telling someone who has completed projects for LLL, NASA and the Army that they don't know what they're talking about. You just keep digging yourself a deeper hole. I know what AI is and you haven't even a clue.

Nice change of topic (again) to AI. Unfortunately, that doesn't help
you fix the erratic fingerprint sensor on your Samsung A51 phone.

I might believe you worked for those companies after you add them to
your resume and/or provide proof of employment:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/details/experience/>

--
Jeff Liebermann ***@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Tom Kunich

2025-01-15 20:37:34 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

<https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/other-galaxy-s-series/did-you-

know-you-can-check-your-phones-hardware-yourself/td-p/2797584>

Post by Jeff Liebermann
"If you have the Samsung Members App installed, at the bottom of your
screen click on 'GET HELP' and then go 'Phone Care' and "Interactive
Checks' and you can test 12 different hardware components of your
phone."
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?

id=com.samsung.android.voc&hl=en_US>

Post by Jeff Liebermann
However, if your hand or index finger is shaking from Parkinson's,
Multiple Sclerosis, Hyperthyroidism, excessive caffeine, alcohol
withdrawal, low blood sugar, smoking, etc the fingerprint test might
fail to function properly.
I'll try the app on a Samsung S10e and see if and how the fingerprint
test works (after the battery is done charging and the phone is done
updating).

Don't you understand the difference between minimal voice recognotion
and real artificial intelliugence?

I never mentioned AI. Your Samsung Galaxy A51 cell phone does not use
AI to recognize your fingerprint or your voice. Reading Samsung's
instructions for running the hardware diagnostics baked into your phone
is well beyond your abilities. Are you afraid of failing the
fingerprint reader self test? The best you can do is dish out more
insults and change the subject to something else, such as AI or
yourself. Like I've mentioned too often, you're a waste of my time.

Post by cyclintom
You have spent your entire life working as an electronics technician.
Why is that if you're so smart? You seem incapable of reflecting on your
own life.

Whatever.

perhaps you cqan explain to people here HOW you can have facial OR
fingerprint recognician without AI? Do you HAVE to keep showing why you
are a failure?

AMuzi

2025-01-15 20:46:46 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

<https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/other-galaxy-s-series/did-you-

know-you-can-check-your-phones-hardware-yourself/td-p/2797584>

id=com.samsung.android.voc&hl=en_US>

Don't you understand the difference between minimal voice recognotion
and real artificial intelliugence?

I never mentioned AI. Your Samsung Galaxy A51 cell phone does not use
AI to recognize your fingerprint or your voice. Reading Samsung's
instructions for running the hardware diagnostics baked into your phone
is well beyond your abilities. Are you afraid of failing the
fingerprint reader self test? The best you can do is dish out more
insults and change the subject to something else, such as AI or
yourself. Like I've mentioned too often, you're a waste of my time.

Post by cyclintom
You have spent your entire life working as an electronics technician.
Why is that if you're so smart? You seem incapable of reflecting on your
own life.

Whatever.

perhaps you cqan explain to people here HOW you can have facial OR
fingerprint recognician without AI? Do you HAVE to keep showing why you
are a failure?

The first hundred years or so of fingerprint matching was on
paper by humans.
Computerized imaging and digitized analysis made it faster
and probably better.
Introducing large language models may well improve that, at
some risk of the system 'inventing' matches where none exist
but all that is as yet unknown.

https://www.techtarget.com/WhatIs/definition/AI-hallucination

--
Andrew Muzi
***@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Tom Kunich

2025-01-15 21:11:08 UTC

Post by cyclintom
You all know that your thumbprint is lucky to be recognized one out of 20 times.

<https://eu.community.samsung.com/t5/other-galaxy-s-series/did-you-

know-you-can-check-your-phones-hardware-yourself/td-p/2797584>

Post by Jeff Liebermann
"If you have the Samsung Members App installed, at the bottom of
your screen click on 'GET HELP' and then go 'Phone Care' and
"Interactive Checks' and you can test 12 different hardware
components of your phone."
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?

id=com.samsung.android.voc&hl=en_US>

Post by Jeff Liebermann
However, if your hand or index finger is shaking from Parkinson's,
Multiple Sclerosis, Hyperthyroidism, excessive caffeine, alcohol
withdrawal, low blood sugar, smoking, etc the fingerprint test might
fail to function properly.
I'll try the app on a Samsung S10e and see if and how the
fingerprint test works (after the battery is done charging and the
phone is done updating).

Don't you understand the difference between minimal voice recognotion
and real artificial intelliugence?

Post by cyclintom
You have spent your entire life working as an electronics technician.
Why is that if you're so smart? You seem incapable of reflecting on
your own life.

Whatever.

perhaps you cqan explain to people here HOW you can have facial OR
fingerprint recognician without AI? Do you HAVE to keep showing why you
are a failure?

The first hundred years or so of fingerprint matching was on paper by
humans.
Computerized imaging and digitized analysis made it faster and probably
better.
Introducing large language models may well improve that, at some risk of
the system 'inventing' matches where none exist but all that is as yet
unknown.
https://www.techtarget.com/WhatIs/definition/AI-hallucination

This is what I meant when I said that AI cannot have a large enough
database to be true AI. The human brain contains some 86 billion neurons.
A LARGE AI device a couple of thousand gates. The human brain can store
nearly an infinite amount of data. An AI computer has to have access to
large scale storage that cannot accessed very rapidly and hence cannot be
considered real artificial intelligence but only a subgroup.

The AI I programmed had to be able to regulate the complex temperature
curve for PCR thermocycling. Not actual AI as such but I used this
technique a lot.

Frank Krygowski

2025-01-16 01:59:52 UTC

Post by Tom Kunich
The AI I programmed had to be able to regulate the complex temperature
curve for PCR thermocycling. Not actual AI as such...

Correct!

Which is why I was asking for details. Your claim to have been
programming AI is no more valid than your claim to be an engineer.
You're dumbing down the definitions until they finally meet your low
qualifications.

--
- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

2025-01-16 03:13:46 UTC