REQ: source for 48 hole rear touring hub

[solidstate]

I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing. I would like
to use Shimano cassettes. The only company I can find that sells a
hub with these specs is Phil Wood. These are a little expensive for
me. Can anyone recommend other companies?

I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48. Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange 24-hole
rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?

Thanks

[m-gineering]

Post by solidstate
I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing. I would like
to use Shimano cassettes. The only company I can find that sells a
hub with these specs is Phil Wood. These are a little expensive for
me. Can anyone recommend other companies?
I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48. Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange 24-hole
rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?
Thanks

Shimano still has a 145mm 48H tandemhub in the pricelist here. You could
probably swap out the axle for a shorter one.

for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past. Get a stiff
rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be enough for
most tourists

Drilling extra holes in a 24 hub might work, but spokelenght will be uneven

[landotter]

Post by m-gineering

I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing.  I would like
to use Shimano cassettes.   The only company I can find that sells a
hub with these specs is Phil Wood.  These are a little expensive for
me.  Can anyone recommend  other companies?
I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48.  Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange 24-hole
rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?
Thanks

Shimano still has a 145mm 48H tandemhub in the pricelist here. You could
probably swap out the axle for a shorter one.
for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past. Get a stiff
rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be enough for
most tourists

Agreed. Doesn't have to be expensive, just well built. Adventurer or
Rhyno rims on any of this generation's Deore hubs will be fine. If you
manage to blow up a freehub body, they're easy to replace.

[Chalo]

Post by landotter

Post by m-gineering
for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past. Get a stiff
rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be enough for
most tourists

Agreed. Doesn't have to be expensive, just well built. Adventurer or
Rhyno rims on any of this generation's Deore hubs will be fine.

A Velocity Chukker or B43 on a 36h hub is probably stronger than any
of the current 48 hole options, at least for a 700c wheel.

48 hole wheels have a better long term prognosis, because they are
less destabilized by a broken spoke, and they are easier to true up
when there is damage.

Chalo

[Jobst Brandt]

Post by Chalo

for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past. Get a
stiff rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be
enough for most tourists

Agreed. Doesn't have to be expensive, just well built. Adventurer
or Rhyno rims on any of this generation's Deore hubs will be fine.

A Velocity Chukker or B43 on a 36h hub is probably stronger than any
of the current 48 hole options, at least for a 700c wheel.
48 hole wheels have a better long term prognosis, because they are
less destabilized by a broken spoke, and they are easier to true up
when there is damage.

The rim is only a bridge and the greater the load on the bridge the
more stanchions it must have to be reliable.

Jobst Brandt

[thirty-six]

Post by Jobst Brandt

Post by Chalo

for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past.  Get a
stiff rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be
enough for most tourists

Agreed.  Doesn't have to be expensive, just well built.  Adventurer
or Rhyno rims on any of this generation's Deore hubs will be fine.

A Velocity Chukker or B43 on a 36h hub is probably stronger than any
of the current 48 hole options, at least for a 700c wheel.
48 hole wheels have a better long term prognosis, because they are
less destabilized by a broken spoke, and they are easier to true up
when there is damage.

The rim is only a bridge and the greater the load on the bridge the
more stanchions it must have to be reliable.
Jobst Brandt

Wow, you mentioned bridges, you been reading my old posts?

[Chalo]

Post by Jobst Brandt

Post by Chalo
A Velocity Chukker or B43 on a 36h hub is probably stronger than any
of the current 48 hole options, at least for a 700c wheel.
48 hole wheels have a better long term prognosis, because they are
less destabilized by a broken spoke, and they are easier to true up
when there is damage.

The rim is only a bridge and the greater the load on the bridge the
more stanchions it must have to be reliable.

To extend your analogy, a deep rim constitutes a stiffer girder that
can bridge a greater unsupported span reliably. This principle can be
taken too far-- and it has been-- but a tall rim like the Velocity
Chukker can be used under the same loads, but with lower spoke counts,
than a flatter, wider rim of the same weight, like the Sun Rhyno
Lite. The stiffer beam of a deep rim allows all the spokes within a
larger arc around the contact patch to take up the load.

Within reason, the tradeoffs of a deeper rim with fewer spokes are
damage tolerance and repairability, not structural integrity.

I was skeptical of the faith some people placed in deep rims when they
first appeared, believing them to be mainly an aerodynamic aid with no
special structural benefit. But having repaired and built a lot of
deep-rimmed wheels in the last few years, I think I can confirm that
the same qualities that allow such rims to function with 16 spokes
when a shallow rim would not, also allow them to function with 32 or
36 spokes when a shallow rim would not.

For some time now, I have been riding on a 32 spoke wheel that has a
42mm deep rim. I expected to have some problems with it (especially
since it is a cheap rim with an imprecise joint), but it has been
uninterestingly reliable. I have recently built my first set of 36
spoke deep rimmed wheels, which I will be using in the same capacity
as my other, almost entirely 48 spoke wheels. If there prove to be
rim-related issues, I will check back in and report them.

Chalo

[thirty-six]

Post by Chalo

Post by Jobst Brandt

Post by Chalo
A Velocity Chukker or B43 on a 36h hub is probably stronger than any
of the current 48 hole options, at least for a 700c wheel.
48 hole wheels have a better long term prognosis, because they are
less destabilized by a broken spoke, and they are easier to true up
when there is damage.

The rim is only a bridge and the greater the load on the bridge the
more stanchions it must have to be reliable.

To extend your analogy, a deep rim constitutes a stiffer girder that
can bridge a greater unsupported span reliably.  This principle can be
taken too far-- and it has been-- but a tall rim like the Velocity
Chukker can be used under the same loads, but with lower spoke counts,
than a flatter, wider rim of the same weight, like the Sun Rhyno
Lite.  The stiffer beam of a deep rim allows all the spokes within a
larger arc around the contact patch to take up the load.
Within reason, the tradeoffs of a deeper rim with fewer spokes are
damage tolerance and repairability, not structural integrity.
I was skeptical of the faith some people placed in deep rims when they
first appeared, believing them to be mainly an aerodynamic aid with no
special structural benefit.  But having repaired and built a lot of
deep-rimmed wheels in the last few years, I think I can confirm that
the same qualities that allow such rims to function with 16 spokes
when a shallow rim would not, also allow them to function with 32 or
36 spokes when a shallow rim would not.
For some time now, I have been riding on a 32 spoke wheel that has a
42mm deep rim.  I expected to have some problems with it (especially
since it is a cheap rim with an imprecise joint), but it has been
uninterestingly reliable.  I have recently built my first set of 36
spoke deep rimmed wheels, which I will be using in the same capacity
as my other, almost entirely 48 spoke wheels.  If there prove to be
rim-related issues, I will check back in and report them.
Chalo

If it buckles, it's a spoke assembly problem (poor build), not a rim
problem.

[Jobst Brandt]

Post by Chalo

Post by Jobst Brandt

Post by Chalo
A Velocity Chukker or B43 on a 36h hub is probably stronger than
any of the current 48 hole options, at least for a 700c wheel. 48
hole wheels have a better long term prognosis, because they are
less destabilized by a broken spoke, and they are easier to true
up when there is damage.

The rim is only a bridge and the greater the load on the bridge the
more stanchions it must have to be reliable.

To extend your analogy, a deep rim constitutes a stiffer girder that
can bridge a greater unsupported span reliably. This principle can
be taken too far-- and it has been-- but a tall rim like the
Velocity Chukker can be used under the same loads, but with lower
spoke counts, than a flatter, wider rim of the same weight, like the
Sun Rhyno Lite. The stiffer beam of a deep rim allows all the
spokes within a larger arc around the contact patch to take up the
load.
Within reason, the trade-offs of a deeper rim with fewer spokes are
damage tolerance and repair ability, not structural integrity.
I was skeptical of the faith some people placed in deep rims when
they first appeared, believing them to be mainly an aerodynamic aid
with no special structural benefit. But having repaired and built a
lot of deep-rimmed wheels in the last few years, I think I can
confirm that the same qualities that allow such rims to function
with 16 spokes when a shallow rim would not, also allow them to
function with 32 or 36 spokes when a shallow rim would not.
For some time now, I have been riding on a 32 spoke wheel that has a
42mm deep rim. I expected to have some problems with it (especially
since it is a cheap rim with an imprecise joint), but it has been
uninterestingly reliable. I have recently built my first set of 36
spoke deep rimmed wheels, which I will be using in the same capacity
as my other, almost entirely 48 spoke wheels. If there prove to be
rim-related issues, I will check back in and report them.

I don't know where the proponents of deep aerodynamic rims ride, but
it isn't in areas with wind or they would give it up in a hurry.
Speed records, in a no-wind environment, are set with such wheels but
they are a problem to ride in wind. Don't try riding no-hands either!

Jobst Brandt

[Chalo]

Post by Jobst Brandt
I don't know where the proponents of deep aerodynamic rims ride, but
it isn't in areas with wind or they would give it up in a hurry.
Speed records, in a no-wind environment, are set with such wheels but
they are a problem to ride in wind.  Don't try riding no-hands either!

I don't think a rim measuring a little over an inch tall is likely to
be that much worse in winds than one measuring a little over half an
inch tall. But the difference is large from a structural standpoint.
We ride as well with tall fat tires as we do with skinny short ones–
maybe better. Wind forces on those are at least as pronounced as
those on the rims.

Almost all deep rims are significantly heavier than comparable
traditional rims. I expect this would make no-hands riding easier on
the whole, not harder.

Chalo

[James]

Post by Chalo

Post by Jobst Brandt
I don't know where the proponents of deep aerodynamic rims ride, but
it isn't in areas with wind or they would give it up in a hurry.
Speed records, in a no-wind environment, are set with such wheels but
they are a problem to ride in wind.  Don't try riding no-hands either!

I don't think a rim measuring a little over an inch tall is likely to
be that much worse in winds than one measuring a little over half an
inch tall.  But the difference is large from a structural standpoint.
We ride as well with tall fat tires as we do with skinny short ones–
maybe better.  Wind forces on those are at least as pronounced as
those on the rims.

I never had a problem with CXP30s on windy days. A Zipp 404 or disc
is a different story.

Post by Chalo
Almost all deep rims are significantly heavier than comparable
traditional rims.  I expect this would make no-hands riding easier on
the whole, not harder.

Hmm. Not sure about that. I don't recall finding it particularly
difficult to ride no hands with the CXP30s, neither any easier.

I find it more difficult on my MTB to ride no hands, but I suspect
that's more to do with geometry than weight of wheels.

JS.

[Tom Sherman °_°]

Post by Jobst Brandt
I don't know where the proponents of deep aerodynamic rims ride, but
it isn't in areas with wind or they would give it up in a hurry.
Speed records, in a no-wind environment, are set with such wheels but
they are a problem to ride in wind. Don't try riding no-hands either!

The problem is due to excessive wheel diameter. An ISO-305-mm front
wheel with full disc covers is fine on a windy day.

[Phil W Lee]

Post by Jobst Brandt

Post by Chalo

Post by Jobst Brandt

Post by Chalo
A Velocity Chukker or B43 on a 36h hub is probably stronger than
any of the current 48 hole options, at least for a 700c wheel. 48
hole wheels have a better long term prognosis, because they are
less destabilized by a broken spoke, and they are easier to true
up when there is damage.

The rim is only a bridge and the greater the load on the bridge the
more stanchions it must have to be reliable.

To extend your analogy, a deep rim constitutes a stiffer girder that
can bridge a greater unsupported span reliably. This principle can
be taken too far-- and it has been-- but a tall rim like the
Velocity Chukker can be used under the same loads, but with lower
spoke counts, than a flatter, wider rim of the same weight, like the
Sun Rhyno Lite. The stiffer beam of a deep rim allows all the
spokes within a larger arc around the contact patch to take up the
load.
Within reason, the trade-offs of a deeper rim with fewer spokes are
damage tolerance and repair ability, not structural integrity.
I was skeptical of the faith some people placed in deep rims when
they first appeared, believing them to be mainly an aerodynamic aid
with no special structural benefit. But having repaired and built a
lot of deep-rimmed wheels in the last few years, I think I can
confirm that the same qualities that allow such rims to function
with 16 spokes when a shallow rim would not, also allow them to
function with 32 or 36 spokes when a shallow rim would not.
For some time now, I have been riding on a 32 spoke wheel that has a
42mm deep rim. I expected to have some problems with it (especially
since it is a cheap rim with an imprecise joint), but it has been
uninterestingly reliable. I have recently built my first set of 36
spoke deep rimmed wheels, which I will be using in the same capacity
as my other, almost entirely 48 spoke wheels. If there prove to be
rim-related issues, I will check back in and report them.

I don't know where the proponents of deep aerodynamic rims ride, but
it isn't in areas with wind or they would give it up in a hurry.
Speed records, in a no-wind environment, are set with such wheels but
they are a problem to ride in wind. Don't try riding no-hands either!

As An Engineer, you should know that the strength of any given weight
of rim is proportional to the square of it's depth, and that from an
aerodynamic point of view, there is no difference between a deep rim
with a shallow tyre and a shallow rim with a deep tyre, in terms of
susceptibility to cross winds.
So why are you doubting the benefits?
Do you perhaps imagine that it's not possible to ride a comfort bike
with balloon tyres no-hands?

[Jobst Brandt]

Post by landotter

I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing.  I would
like to use Shimano cassettes.   The only company I can find that
sells a hub with these specs is Phil Wood.  These are a little
expensive for me.  Can anyone recommend  other companies?
I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48.  Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange
24-hole rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?

Shimano still has a 145mm 48H tandem hub in the price list here. You
could probably swap out the axle for a shorter one.
for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past. Get a
stiff rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be
enough for most tourists

Agreed. Doesn't have to be expensive, just well built. Adventurer or
Rhino rims on any of this generation's Deore hubs will be fine. If
you manage to blow up a freehub body, they're easy to replace.

The number of spokes should be determined for rim radial bending
strength and load on the wheel. That's why they were used for tandems
so the rims do not need to bridge large unsupported expanses. I think
the problem is that most people do not see the wheel as a radially
compressive load that should not exceed the tension of a spoke
locally. If spokes become slack under radially compressive loads,
their spokes will unscrew and the rim my crack from excessive cyclic
loads.

Jobst Brandt

[thirty-six]

Post by Jobst Brandt

Post by landotter

I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing.  I would
like to use Shimano cassettes.   The only company I can find that
sells a hub with these specs is Phil Wood.  These are a little
expensive for me.  Can anyone recommend  other companies?
I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48.  Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange
24-hole rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?

Shimano still has a 145mm 48H tandem hub in the price list here. You
could probably swap out the axle for a shorter one.
for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past. Get a
stiff rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be
enough for most tourists

Agreed. Doesn't have to be expensive, just well built. Adventurer or
Rhino rims on any of this generation's Deore hubs will be fine. If
you manage to blow up a freehub body, they're easy to replace.

The number of spokes should be determined for rim radial bending
strength and load on the wheel.  That's why they were used for tandems
so the rims do not need to bridge large unsupported expanses.  I think
the problem is that most people do not see the wheel as a radially
compressive load that should not exceed the tension of a spoke
locally.  If spokes become slack under radially compressive loads,
their spokes will unscrew and the rim my crack from excessive cyclic
loads.

Bullshit. My spokes don't unscrew and neither do the rims crack.
There are simple reasons to this, my wheels are well constructed, do
not have their spokes tightened to kingdom come and do have the spokes
lose tension completely at times

Post by Jobst Brandt
Jobs randt

[Tom Sherman °_°]

Post by thirty-six

Post by Jobst Brandt
[...]
The number of spokes should be determined for rim radial bending
strength and load on the wheel. That's why they were used for tandems
so the rims do not need to bridge large unsupported expanses. I think
the problem is that most people do not see the wheel as a radially
compressive load that should not exceed the tension of a spoke
locally. If spokes become slack under radially compressive loads,
their spokes will unscrew and the rim my crack from excessive cyclic
loads.

Bullshit. My spokes don't unscrew and neither do the rims crack.
There are simple reasons to this,[...]

Primarily that Trevor lives in an alternate universe with different
physical laws.

[Jay Beattie]

Post by landotter

Post by m-gineering

I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing.  I would like
to use Shimano cassettes.   The only company I can find that sells a
hub with these specs is Phil Wood.  These are a little expensive for
me.  Can anyone recommend  other companies?
I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48.  Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange 24-hole
rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?
Thanks

Shimano still has a 145mm 48H tandemhub in the pricelist here. You could
probably swap out the axle for a shorter one.
for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past. Get a stiff
rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be enough for
most tourists

Agreed. Doesn't have to be expensive, just well built. Adventurer or
Rhyno rims on any of this generation's Deore hubs will be fine. If you
manage to blow up a freehub body, they're easy to replace.- Hide quoted text -

Easy to replace, but not cheap.
http://www.bikebling.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Shimano-LX-9spd-Freehub
That's more than I paid for my Deore rear hub off the sale table -- a
hub that now has a shot freehub body. I agree that these are
generally good hubs, but I'm going to rebuild that wheel with
something a little more robust -- and probably a lot more expensive.
-- Jay Beattie.

[landotter]

Post by landotter

Post by m-gineering

I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing.  I would like
to use Shimano cassettes.   The only company I can find that sells a
hub with these specs is Phil Wood.  These are a little expensive for
me.  Can anyone recommend  other companies?
I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48.  Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange 24-hole
rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?
Thanks

Shimano still has a 145mm 48H tandemhub in the pricelist here. You could
probably swap out the axle for a shorter one.
for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past. Get a stiff
rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be enough for
most tourists

Agreed. Doesn't have to be expensive, just well built. Adventurer or
Rhyno rims on any of this generation's Deore hubs will be fine. If you
manage to blow up a freehub body, they're easy to replace.- Hide quoted text -

Easy to replace, but not cheap.http://www.bikebling.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Shimano-LX-9s...
That's more than I paid for my Deore rear hub off the sale table -- a
hub that now has a shot freehub body.  I agree that these are
generally good hubs, but I'm going to rebuild that wheel with
something a little more robust -- and probably a lot more expensive.
-- Jay Beattie.

$35 is chump change compared to the price or time of a rebuild.
Shimano has a super strong freehub now, but I'll have to ask D about
the model number.

[Jay Beattie]

Post by landotter

Post by landotter

Post by m-gineering

I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing.  I would like
to use Shimano cassettes.   The only company I can find that sells a
hub with these specs is Phil Wood.  These are a little expensive for
me.  Can anyone recommend  other companies?
I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48.  Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange 24-hole
rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?
Thanks

Shimano still has a 145mm 48H tandemhub in the pricelist here. You could
probably swap out the axle for a shorter one.
for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past. Get a stiff
rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be enough for
most tourists

Agreed. Doesn't have to be expensive, just well built. Adventurer or
Rhyno rims on any of this generation's Deore hubs will be fine. If you
manage to blow up a freehub body, they're easy to replace.- Hide quoted text -

Easy to replace, but not cheap.http://www.bikebling.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Shimano-LX-9s...
That's more than I paid for my Deore rear hub off the sale table -- a
hub that now has a shot freehub body.  I agree that these are
generally good hubs, but I'm going to rebuild that wheel with
something a little more robust -- and probably a lot more expensive.
-- Jay Beattie.

$35 is chump change compared to the price or time of a rebuild.
Shimano has a super strong freehub now, but I'll have to ask D about
the model number.- Hide quoted text -

Get me the model number of the freehub body, and I'll consider keeping
the wheel. Rebuilding is not that big of a deal, IMO -- particularly
now that I have that Netflix streaming feature. -- Jay Beattie.

[landotter]

Post by Jay Beattie

Post by landotter

Post by landotter

Post by m-gineering

I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing.  I would like
to use Shimano cassettes.   The only company I can find that sells a
hub with these specs is Phil Wood.  These are a little expensive for
me.  Can anyone recommend  other companies?
I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48.  Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange 24-hole
rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?
Thanks

Shimano still has a 145mm 48H tandemhub in the pricelist here. You could
probably swap out the axle for a shorter one.
for a single, 48h hubs are a bit of a thing of the past. Get a stiff
rim, decent spokes and a good wheelbuilder and 36 should be enough for
most tourists

Agreed. Doesn't have to be expensive, just well built. Adventurer or
Rhyno rims on any of this generation's Deore hubs will be fine. If you
manage to blow up a freehub body, they're easy to replace.- Hide quoted text -

Easy to replace, but not cheap.http://www.bikebling.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Shimano-LX-9s...
That's more than I paid for my Deore rear hub off the sale table -- a
hub that now has a shot freehub body.  I agree that these are
generally good hubs, but I'm going to rebuild that wheel with
something a little more robust -- and probably a lot more expensive.
-- Jay Beattie.

$35 is chump change compared to the price or time of a rebuild.
Shimano has a super strong freehub now, but I'll have to ask D about
the model number.- Hide quoted text -

Get me the model number of the freehub body, and I'll consider keeping
the wheel.  Rebuilding is not that big of a deal, IMO -- particularly
now that I have that Netflix streaming feature. -- Jay Beattie.

Never mind, I was thinking of the driving clutch in one of their heavy
duty three speeds. Doh.

[m-gineering]

Post by landotter

Post by Jay Beattie
Get me the model number of the freehub body, and I'll consider keeping
the wheel. Rebuilding is not that big of a deal, IMO -- particularly
now that I have that Netflix streaming feature. -- Jay Beattie.

Never mind, I was thinking of the driving clutch in one of their heavy
duty three speeds. Doh.

Aren't all steel freehubs heavy duty now, now we have the new XT?

;)

[bfd]

Post by m-gineering

Post by landotter

Post by Jay Beattie
Get me the model number of the freehub body, and I'll consider keeping
the wheel.  Rebuilding is not that big of a deal, IMO -- particularly
now that I have that Netflix streaming feature. -- Jay Beattie.

Never mind, I was thinking of the driving clutch in one of their heavy
duty three speeds. Doh.

Aren't all steel freehubs heavy duty now, now we have the new XT?

Be careful of the latest version of Shimano XT hubs. On the ibob list,
Alex Wetmore warns of the following problem:

"There is one major problem with the LHT wheels. They are using the
FH-M770 rear hub, which has smaller bearings (3/16") than standard
Shimano
rear hubs (1/4") and uses aluminum axles with easy to strip threads.

I knew about the smaller bearings, but just learned about the
aluminum
axle this weekend with a friend visited with a "broken" one. When he
took
it apart in my shop he discovered that the end cap had stripped the
threads in the axle. I took a photo which you can find here:
http://alexandchristine.smugmug.com/Bicycles/Shimano-XT-Aluminum-Axle/10997988_eTAGA#768940509_7GQHt-XL-LB

The axle in the rear is a standard 10mm steel Shimano hub axle. You
can
see that the thread pitch and the height of the threads is the same on
each.

He had not adjusted the bearings from the Shimano factory before
having
this failure. I personally think that this is a silly place to save
weight on a touring bike and would recommend LX hubs over XT ones for
touring and commuting wheelsets. Since the end cap is also used to
preload the bearings it will not be fully threaded onto the axle. In
this
case it looks like it was being held on with only two or three
threads.

I was disappointed to see this "development". XT has almost always
been
light in smart ways, so that it ends up a little lighter than LX
without
giving up any durability. Now it looks like LX is the durable group
and
XT is a baby XTR group going for as light as possible."

[landotter]

Post by bfd

Post by m-gineering

Post by landotter

Post by Jay Beattie
Get me the model number of the freehub body, and I'll consider keeping
the wheel.  Rebuilding is not that big of a deal, IMO -- particularly
now that I have that Netflix streaming feature. -- Jay Beattie.

Never mind, I was thinking of the driving clutch in one of their heavy
duty three speeds. Doh.

Aren't all steel freehubs heavy duty now, now we have the new XT?

Be careful of the latest version of Shimano XT hubs. On the ibob list,
"There is one major problem with the LHT wheels.  They are using the
FH-M770 rear hub, which has smaller bearings (3/16") than standard
Shimano
rear hubs (1/4") and uses aluminum axles with easy to strip threads.
I knew about the smaller bearings, but just learned about the
aluminum
axle this weekend with a friend visited with a "broken" one.  When he
took
it apart in my shop he discovered that the end cap had stripped the
threads in the axle.  I took a photo which you can find here:http://alexandchristine.smugmug.com/Bicycles/Shimano-XT-Aluminum-Axle...
The axle in the rear is a standard 10mm steel Shimano hub axle.  You
can
see that the thread pitch and the height of the threads is the same on
each.
He had not adjusted the bearings from the Shimano factory before
having
this failure.  I personally think that this is a silly place to save
weight on a touring bike and would recommend LX hubs over XT ones for
touring and commuting wheelsets.  Since the end cap is also used to
preload the bearings it will not be fully threaded onto the axle.  In
this
case it looks like it was being held on with only two or three
threads.
I was disappointed to see this "development".  XT has almost always
been
light in smart ways, so that it ends up a little lighter than LX
without
giving up any durability.  Now it looks like LX is the durable group
and
XT is a baby XTR group going for as light as possible."

My heavy duty city/tour wheelset is built on plain Deores. The bearing
feel is phenomenal compared to even five years ago. The seals are
magnificent. They just need a little touch of the cone wrench out of
the box.

[bfd]

Post by landotter

Post by bfd

Post by m-gineering

Post by landotter

Post by Jay Beattie
Get me the model number of the freehub body, and I'll consider keeping
the wheel.  Rebuilding is not that big of a deal, IMO -- particularly
now that I have that Netflix streaming feature. -- Jay Beattie.

Never mind, I was thinking of the driving clutch in one of their heavy
duty three speeds. Doh.

Aren't all steel freehubs heavy duty now, now we have the new XT?

Be careful of the latest version of Shimano XT hubs. On the ibob list,
"There is one major problem with the LHT wheels.  They are using the
FH-M770 rear hub, which has smaller bearings (3/16") than standard
Shimano
rear hubs (1/4") and uses aluminum axles with easy to strip threads.
I knew about the smaller bearings, but just learned about the
aluminum
axle this weekend with a friend visited with a "broken" one.  When he
took
it apart in my shop he discovered that the end cap had stripped the
threads in the axle.  I took a photo which you can find here:http://alexandchristine.smugmug.com/Bicycles/Shimano-XT-Aluminum-Axle...
The axle in the rear is a standard 10mm steel Shimano hub axle.  You
can
see that the thread pitch and the height of the threads is the same on
each.
He had not adjusted the bearings from the Shimano factory before
having
this failure.  I personally think that this is a silly place to save
weight on a touring bike and would recommend LX hubs over XT ones for
touring and commuting wheelsets.  Since the end cap is also used to
preload the bearings it will not be fully threaded onto the axle.  In
this
case it looks like it was being held on with only two or three
threads.
I was disappointed to see this "development".  XT has almost always
been
light in smart ways, so that it ends up a little lighter than LX
without
giving up any durability.  Now it looks like LX is the durable group
and
XT is a baby XTR group going for as light as possible."

My heavy duty city/tour wheelset is built on plain Deores. The bearing
feel is phenomenal compared to even five years ago. The seals are
magnificent. They just need a little touch of the cone wrench out of
the box.- Hide quoted text -

But is your "Deores" rear hub the same as the *FH-M770 XT* rear hub
that uses the aluminum axle that caused the problem shown? If not,
then it shouldn't have any problems. Good Luck!

[landotter]

Post by bfd

Post by landotter

Post by bfd

Post by m-gineering

Post by landotter

Post by Jay Beattie
Get me the model number of the freehub body, and I'll consider keeping
the wheel.  Rebuilding is not that big of a deal, IMO -- particularly
now that I have that Netflix streaming feature. -- Jay Beattie.

Never mind, I was thinking of the driving clutch in one of their heavy
duty three speeds. Doh.

Aren't all steel freehubs heavy duty now, now we have the new XT?

Be careful of the latest version of Shimano XT hubs. On the ibob list,
"There is one major problem with the LHT wheels.  They are using the
FH-M770 rear hub, which has smaller bearings (3/16") than standard
Shimano
rear hubs (1/4") and uses aluminum axles with easy to strip threads.
I knew about the smaller bearings, but just learned about the
aluminum
axle this weekend with a friend visited with a "broken" one.  When he
took
it apart in my shop he discovered that the end cap had stripped the
threads in the axle.  I took a photo which you can find here:http://alexandchristine.smugmug.com/Bicycles/Shimano-XT-Aluminum-Axle...
The axle in the rear is a standard 10mm steel Shimano hub axle.  You
can
see that the thread pitch and the height of the threads is the same on
each.
He had not adjusted the bearings from the Shimano factory before
having
this failure.  I personally think that this is a silly place to save
weight on a touring bike and would recommend LX hubs over XT ones for
touring and commuting wheelsets.  Since the end cap is also used to
preload the bearings it will not be fully threaded onto the axle.  In
this
case it looks like it was being held on with only two or three
threads.
I was disappointed to see this "development".  XT has almost always
been
light in smart ways, so that it ends up a little lighter than LX
without
giving up any durability.  Now it looks like LX is the durable group
and
XT is a baby XTR group going for as light as possible."

My heavy duty city/tour wheelset is built on plain Deores. The bearing
feel is phenomenal compared to even five years ago. The seals are
magnificent. They just need a little touch of the cone wrench out of
the box.- Hide quoted text -

But is your "Deores" rear hub the same as the *FH-M770 XT* rear hub
that uses the aluminum axle that caused the problem shown? If not,
then it shouldn't have any problems. Good Luck!

Yes and no. I've pitted cones on cheaper Shimano hubs in a couple
thousand miles. 105 on up solves the problem for road hubs. I hadn't
run Shimano mtb kit in quite a while, as the cheap Formula hubs I
built some wheels on actually were really durable once I re-balled
them, and replaced a crap cone.

I got the Deore M590, non disk, out of curiosity. Cosmetically boring,
and perhaps heavy--but the polishing tech has moved down the line and
these are stupidly smooth. I'd not be scared to ride cross country on
them. Otter approved.

[Chalo]

I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing.  

If you need 48 spoke strength, you're taking a noteworthy penalty by
using 130mm spacing instead of something wider. Shimano tandem hubs
will space down as low as 135mm, but not lower than that.

I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48.  

If you do that, the holes will not stagger, and you'll have to use two
different spoke lengths on one of the flanges. It's not a big deal,
but you should keep it in mind.

Chalo

[SMS]

Post by solidstate
I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing. I would like
to use Shimano cassettes. The only company I can find that sells a
hub with these specs is Phil Wood. These are a little expensive for
me. Can anyone recommend other companies?
I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48. Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange 24-hole
rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?
Thanks

You're pretty much stuck with Phil Wood for such an esoteric item. White
Industries makes a 135mm 48 hole Shimano cassette hub which might work,
but it's $265 (still less than the $325 Phil Wood hub though).

There are several 145mm 48 hole hubs, but that's way too wide.

Don't try drilling.

[pH]

Post by solidstate
I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing. I would like
to use Shimano cassettes. The only company I can find that sells a
hub with these specs is Phil Wood. These are a little expensive for
me. Can anyone recommend other companies?
I would also be willing to try to drill 24 hole hubs to 48. Does
anyone have any suggestions for a good quality large-flange 24-hole
rear hub that uses Shimano cassettes?
Thanks

Surly makes hubs, although they don't seem to get up to 48H until
135mm. You might see if they will custom assemble you a 130mm axle
in one of their 135mm hubs.

I think they are www.surlybike.com/parts/hubs

pH

[Steve Freides]

Post by solidstate
I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing.

Why?

Some of us have found that deep section rims, which seem to have been
built primarily for their aerodynamic advantages, are so much stronger
than their predecessors that fewer spokes suffice. We use 32-spoke
Campy Atlanta '96 rims on our tandem - team weight is 275 lbs., works
just fine.

-S-

[John Thompson]

Post by solidstate
I'm looking for a 48 hole rear hub with 130 mm spacing. I would like
to use Shimano cassettes. The only company I can find that sells a
hub with these specs is Phil Wood. These are a little expensive for
me. Can anyone recommend other companies?

If you need a specialty product you must be willing to pay a specialty
price...